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  • #16
    Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
    How long has she lived there? That would also affect what I imputed...if she's been there for 2 or more years, the argument could be that had she retained employment, she would have been entitled to the increases as well over that period of time...
    She moved there on June 29th, I think, 2009. Let's say end-June.

    There's a lot of history that may count against her:

    - Was full-time @ Sears when we got married, was let go with a golden parachute when Sears fired all of their full-time staff

    - Promised to work full time again as soon as the kids were in school full-time (there's no "I gave up my career to raise His kids" argument to be made)

    - Refused to work throughout marriage. Got, and immediately quit several part-time jobs.

    - Had several opportunities to work for Sears again throughout marriage (old friends were now store managers)

    - Started, and quit, several home-based businesses - all of which I invested HEAVILY in (and she still has the embroidery machine, sewing machines, thousands of dollars worth of commercial cake decorating stuff, etc., etc.)

    - refused to work after I left, said that she didn't have to work to support kids because I had to support them through CS (actually stated this, verbatim).

    - After she made the statement above, I drove 3 hours to Trenton, drove her around to pick up job applications, made her fill them out, drove her around to drop them off. She got a callback from Toys R Us, and I drove her to initial interview. She got called back for a second interview and refused to go. I talked her into going and drove her to callback. She got the job, and then refused to show up to work on the first day. I found out, got her to call management back and beg for another chance, they gave her one more chance, and she started work. Got good reviews, was promised a promotion and full-time hours, and she immediately quit.

    - When she stated her intent to move to SK and told me that my daughter had said that she would accompany her***, I said that I would allow it if Ex secured full-time employment and got a house (initial plan was to live with parents or in welfare housing, I refused). She told me that she had indeed already secured full-time employment at a new hotel/spa in SK (she was lying) and that Sears wanted her back.

    - In separation agreement "pledged to seek permanent, full-time employment with a minimum annual income of $24K"

    - Got one part time job ($10/hour, 20 hours) and quit it, got another part time job ($10/hour, 20 hours).

    Soooooo, the history dating back to 1993 is consistent: broken promises to work, refusal to work, quitting work....

    It's only been 15 months, though, not 2 years. Had she started working at Sears again, she'd be right back up there - I'm certain (was a departmental manager when she was let go in 1993).

    Cheers!

    Gary

    *** my daughter (15 in Oct) has since stated that she was coerced into giving a "yes" and never had time to think about what she wanted to do.

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    • #17
      Allow your lawyer to play hardball...she has the skills to be making anywhere from 35-45K in retail.

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      • #18
        Spousal support, it should be noted, is there to assist a spouse maintain a level of lifestyle they were accustomed to...however, the spouse is required to take action to earn a wage that would decrease or end the need for support...Unless disabled, an adult should be able to support themself. How long divorced?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
          How long divorced?
          Long story, and yes I'm an idiot:

          - I declared intent to divorce 1998 (stayed for kids)
          - Stopped being intimate 2004
          - Separate bedrooms 2007
          - Geographical separation (me to Ottawa) 2008
          - 3rd iteration (and final, so I thought) of SA filed 2009 along with petition for divorce
          - Divorced 2010

          So, legally separated for almost 15 months, divorced for 3 months.

          Gary

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          • #20
            The courts will consider date of physical separation for spousal support...being 2008....2 years...not much chance in losing the spousal support yet

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            • #21
              Nobody is ever an idiot...just not knowledgeable

              You can argue that you supported her and the family from the outset...if you have anything to back it up...at which point it would be considered that she had 10 years to get her life and employment in order, knowing a separation/divorce was coming...and has had the last 2 years of supporting herself...the average duration of a spousal support order is anywhere from 6-12 years...AVERAGE ugh

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              • #22
                I agree that there isn't a snowball's chance in, well, "you know where" of getting her SS cut off.

                The situation I'm in now, though, is as a payor of SS and the recipient of CS... except that her CS is ZERO because she won't work.

                What I'm hoping for is a wash, such that her CS equals my SS. I don't want her money and I don't want to ruin her. I just want her to leave me the heck alone. So, if I can get her income imputed, I'll be happy. Well, not "happy" but at least I'll be able to sleep.

                I have read somewhere that the fact I supported home-based businesses and that she quit 'em all (and is sitting on ~ $10,000 worth of stuff I bought for these businesses) counts for something, but I'm not sure what, exactly, it counts for, or for whom it counts.

                The fact that it's UNCONSCIONABLE for her to seek SS when it means taking money away from her kids should mean something, but not in this country What happened to "kids first"?

                Cheers!

                Gary

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                • #23
                  Have you looked at having SS suspended for undue hardship??

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                  • #24
                    If the court has to choose between undue hardship for a deliberately under or unemployed parent, or for the parent with custody, they do actually follow the best interests principle.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
                      the average duration of a spousal support order is anywhere from 6-12 years...AVERAGE ugh
                      I've heard that the new guidelines shoot for a two-for-one duration, where two years of marriage gets you 1 year of support.

                      This is heartening to those who would otherwise be slapped with indefinite, but won't make any difference in my case: Her age coupled with the years of marriage puts her well into the "indefinite" category. Even if the new guidelines did apply, I'd still be looking at 8 years.

                      I am loathe to open the can of worms on SS though: She agreed to $1000/year for 5 years, with no review, in the SA. So, if I open that up, I could end up paying more and for longer. I'm sure her lawyer will open that paragraph up anyway...

                      One thing I'm curious about: Her "entitlement" to MY pension is worth about $1000/month to her, and is going to cost me $1000/month off of my paycheque for the rest of my life. Any idea why this doesn't count as support? Am I supposed to pay her $1000/month forever on top of losing $1000/month in income to her for the rest of my life?

                      Cheers!

                      Gary

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
                        Have you looked at having SS suspended for undue hardship??
                        Not yet, but I CAN show (without cheating, even) that my expenses = my income before SS (and not including entertainment, etc.... just bills)

                        I'm gonna ask my lawyer about this one, thanks.

                        Gary

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
                          If the court has to choose between undue hardship for a deliberately under or unemployed parent, or for the parent with custody, they do actually follow the best interests principle.
                          THAT is heartening

                          Thanks,

                          Gary

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                          • #28
                            As well, your original agreement no longer applies, as you are the primary parent...there is grounds for a change, which I would do ASAP...you can look at imputing retroactively as well....asking for CS for the entire period to be provided. That will offset some of the spousal support...but if you are paying a grand a month in SS, I have taken the leap to you make decent money, although not great...and the child support would nowhere near negate that.

                            What are the access arrangements? does she come to exercise?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
                              What are the access arrangements? does she come to exercise?
                              She lives in SK and the kids go to visit her. I have paid 100% of all of the costs (airline tickets) all along:

                              - Summer 2009, bought them tickets but they refused to go to visit her

                              - Christmas 2009, talked them into going out for a week, paid for tickets

                              - Summer 2010 Christmas went OK so they agreed to visit her for 3 weeks, paid for tickets.

                              - Asked her when she's off around Christmas this year (she hasn't answered) in order to book tickets for them. Moot point, as they've both said they don't want to go. I want them to go but don't know if I can "force" them to any more.

                              - Offered to let her visit them here any time - I would pay for it and vacate house. She declined (through kids) and told kids that "she can't bear to see Dad dating other women" and other nonsense.

                              Cheers!

                              Gary

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I've heard that the new guidelines shoot for a two-for-one duration, where two years of marriage gets you 1 year of support.

                                Depends on the marriage and the judge you are lucky or unlucky enough to draw...SS has been trending shorter because marriages are as well, and most people marrying are waiting until their careers are established before jumping up to the alter.

                                This is heartening to those who would otherwise be slapped with indefinite, but won't make any difference in my case: Her age coupled with the years of marriage puts her well into the "indefinite" category. Even if the new guidelines did apply, I'd still be looking at 8 years.

                                The biggest problem you have is her history of being supported by you...but that can be argued with you retaining custody...tough fight though without an undue hardship claim...moreso because you are reacting to an action, rather than initiating one too

                                I am loathe to open the can of worms on SS though: She agreed to $1000/year for 5 years, with no review, in the SA. So, if I open that up, I could end up paying more and for longer. I'm sure her lawyer will open that paragraph up anyway...

                                1000/month, I think you meant?

                                One thing I'm curious about: Her "entitlement" to MY pension is worth about $1000/month to her, and is going to cost me $1000/month off of my paycheque for the rest of my life. Any idea why this doesn't count as support? Am I supposed to pay her $1000/month forever on top of losing $1000/month in income to her for the rest of my life?

                                An ex spouse is entitled to a percentage of RRSP or pension for the duration of the marriage...it is a clear mathematical process...although you would also be entitled to hers (if she had one). This was brought into law to protect the rights of the stay-at-home parents who would otherwise have worked and likely contributed to their own pensions or RRSPs, and earned higher wages...I would love to see this law changed as well, as more and more couples elect to continue their own careers after a marriage...and would love to see it limited to the period of time when any child rearing was done...

                                Comment

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