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  • crazy story and thoughts

    first time post

    brief details:
    cohabitate 6 years, 4 and 6 year old. I'm a physician and she is a registered nurse that is too lazy to work.

    My soon to be ex-wife and I separated (technically) on September 1st. The background is that a few weeks prior my brother was diagnosed with advanced cancer which was her breaking point. A few weeks later, she went to a lawyer and tried doing a rule 14 asking for exclusive everything. Her claim was that I am abusive (when in fact she was physically and verbally towards me but thats a different story). It quickly got squashed and we have a without prejudice nesting agreement for our 6 and 4 year old and I would have to fund things as I normally do. Fortunately our house is sold and I will be renting space from my parents after the closing date.

    I mentioned technically september 1st and the reason for this is that even though the rule 14 was middle of month she wrote the date as the 1st.

    From September 1 to mid October, she went on a crazy spending spree to a tune of 25k. Obviously she will be accountable for this. Expenses include crazy cash withdrawals and random checks to her mom. It got so bad that Mastercard had to shut down our credit card altogether bc she was that out of control.

    Recently we are in money trouble again. We basically live off of debit.

    So now getting to my question.

    A few days ago, she purchased groceries. This shows up on my bank account as Zehrs for 140 dollars. I do not trust her and found that she left that receipt in a grocery bag under the sink. I recovered the receipt and it shows a $40 cash back. This is obviously sketchy as it disguises what would be her expense as a shared expense and who knows how many times this has been done.

    We have not gone to case conference yet.
    Has anyone seen this type of behaviour and while $40 is peanuts what can I expect out of this shady behaviour (this would be among so many other things)

    thanks for your time

  • #2
    Welcome! I read your post and it brought up some memories of days-gone-by when I did have some friends who would scam their spouses. Favorite was something to do with purchasing gift cards at Costco? Yes, and most all grocery stores do the cash-back thing... even Walmart... even casinos.

    What I don't understand is why you are still sharing bank account? She can have her own bank account and you deposit money in there.

    I would demand that at this upcoming meeting the two of you exchange budgets. This is very important as it will set the stage for future spousal support which you undoubtedly have to pay.

    Hopefully you have a good FAMILY lawyer. Separating finances is typically one of the first things people are advised to do. Watch your back w.r.t. false abuse accusations.

    Lots of good people on this forum who can offer advice. Some things you may or may not agree to but it is always good to hear other people's perspectives, particularly when you move along through your legal process.

    Sorry about your brother. Must be a very difficult time for you.

    PS - good thing your soon-to-be-ex (STBX) only racked up 25K. Perhaps she has a gambling problem?
    Last edited by arabian; 12-08-2018, 06:11 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      when she did the rule 14 it was a basically a failed set-up. Part of the resolution was a nesting agreement that stated I had to fund all the regular expenses. The finance side has not been dealt with. In addition, she would claim that she doesnt work and has no access to funds. The issues is that our household bills are crazy. Part of the problem was she had a shopping addiction to the tune of 3400 a month on clothes and makeup. An option was to give her a nominal amount for personal needs but it settled and was going fine. At the end of the day all the amounts will have to be accounted for. It may sound odd as I am the bread winner, on equalization she will owe me to the tune of 100k. Her own expenses will be close to 40k. We will get maybe 200 each from the sale of the house so she has really screwed herself over.

      But what I am interested in is what, if any, would the consequences of her attempting to cheat and be dishonest? I also should mention on financial statement she neglected to include a 40K RRSP and the 40k in debt she brought into the marriage that was paid the day after our wedding. Forty dollars is peanuts but if she goes to several stores a week that will add up quickly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Something you will learn as you go along is that you have to "instruct" your lawyer.

        Look through the threads on this forum. There is much valuable information for you.

        A person's shopping, drug or gambling addition is not household expenses. The two of you need to complete budgets. That is a first step. Hopefully you can agree, on consent, on how much money to provide to her. I caution you that if you do not get this important step worked out you could very well be on the hook for her present and future shopping excesses. Hope you are up for a very long and very expensive process. You know her lawyer sees $$$ in your occupation. Her lawyer will blow smoke up her rectum insofar as what she is entitled to.

        You now have an interim agreement in place which will most likely set the precedent for future support payments. I wouldn't delay in getting things worked out. I'm sure you're paying excess of 500.00/hr for your own lawyer. Doesn't take long for that to amount to the equity in your home. Both lawyers know the equity in your home will nicely cover some of their bills.

        Nothing is "fair" in divorce. No winners. Best is to settle quickly and decisively.

        Comment


        • #5
          thank you

          currently the court order says fund things as i previously did which was 15k a month between salaries and dividends.

          She has gone out and leased a car that is 1200 a month whereas the last car which naturally expired was 600 and has also decided to get a dog which we never had. I obviously will not accept this as a reasonable budget.

          We will end up with 50/50 so i will also not accept a table amount (4k) of support as there is no way we ever spent that much on the kids per month.
          I have all my expenses tracked carefully for the last year that has shown a ramping up in spending just prior to and after the date of separation.
          Does crushing her credibility do anything or is it all a numbers game?
          I would love to settle and move on but again, anyone who will get divorced over a family member getting cancer is not a good person.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Kkc and welcome to the forum! I'd caution you on calling your wife lazy if she stayed home to raise the children while you worked. Now that (assuming) the children are in school full-time its the idea time for her to return to work. Hopefully she kept up her nursing credentials.

            I'm not very legal savvy, so take this with a grain of salt, but I would start paying table child support right away and get a place (even at your parents like you mentioned) and forget the nesting arrangements. Your kids are young, they will get over it.

            How did you mange to get a court order without going to a case conference? I believe its a numbers game, you get a nurses salary inputted to her, then you pay offset child support, how she spends her money is her choice not yours. She can shop till she drops!

            Just my 2 cents.

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            • #7
              You realize spousal support is different from child support?
              Child support has tables based on income. Spousal support does not.

              Good you have kept records. You can save yourself some money (so your lawyer doesn't have to do this) by putting everything regarding your household expenses on a spreadsheet. You can download the court budget forms and use that as a guideline to things you and your wife would be including in your budgets (yep if she went for mani/pedi every month that's included, particularly in your income bracket). She was likely trying to up her future spousal support revenue stream by going on shopping spree. If you have all the record then you're ok.

              Also good that your wife has a profession (nursing). Thinking ahead ... offers and you can reasearch how much time and $ it would take for her to become self-sufficient. Laziness is not a valid reason for unemployment. With that said, the court like proposals that show gradual increasing imputing of income to the stay-at-home parent. Lucky people in your situation can negotiate lump sump settlements for spousal support. Often people don't go that route because they have something to prove and want to fight it out, only to end up settling after they have paid their lawyers tens of thousands of dollars. Read lots of case law on CanLii and you will get the drift.

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              • #8
                I have nothing but respect for people who stay home and raise kids. The facts were the kids were in day are 3 days a week and often enough those 2 other days my dad had to watch the kids. She has kept up credentials but she is lazy.
                We got a court order because she was running around the house screaming I was beating her and called the police. I saw this coming a mile away and videotaped the night from my phone. So when she gave me the rule 14 the on the following Friday afternoon with a very detailed affadativ that could not have been written in the morning it was clearly a set up.

                The monday morning, my lawyer called hers outlining that she had a percocet addiction and next thing you know a nesting agreement is in place.

                The nesting agreement will come to an end on March 1 as the house is sold and closes then.
                Again I refuse to pay 4k a month in child support as this is excessive and will crossover into spousal support. We will get 50/50, the set-off is not appropriate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  How long has she been out of the work force? Is she up to date on her nursing credentials with her college?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    You realize spousal support is different from child support?
                    Child support has tables based on income. Spousal support does not.

                    Good you have kept records. You can save yourself some money (so your lawyer doesn't have to do this) by putting everything regarding your household expenses on a spreadsheet. You can download the court budget forms and use that as a guideline to things you and your wife would be including in your budgets (yep if she went for mani/pedi every month that's included, particularly in your income bracket). She was likely trying to up her future spousal support revenue stream by going on shopping spree. If you have all the record then you're ok.

                    Also good that your wife has a profession (nursing). Thinking ahead ... offers and you can reasearch how much time and $ it would take for her to become self-sufficient. Laziness is not a valid reason for unemployment. With that said, the court like proposals that show gradual increasing imputing of income to the stay-at-home parent. Lucky people in your situation can negotiate lump sump settlements for spousal support. Often people don't go that route because they have something to prove and want to fight it out, only to end up settling after they have paid their lawyers tens of thousands of dollars. Read lots of case law on CanLii and you will get the drift.
                    well see what her range goes, she really does not have a strong case for compensatory as she chose not to work and non-compensatory needs are very trivial.

                    I reviewed some of the figures, shell owe around 100K in equalization, + 25k in shared debt (house renos), and likely account for 20k in spending beyond her half of the joint account. From a starting point of about 220k from the house, it leaves her with 75k. I am hoping we can leverage this when she realizes she cannot afford the house she wants.

                    I do not want to do a lump sum bc she is only 34 and can likely remarry and her family own several businesses and could easily give her a job. Unless the lump sum is small. We were only married 6 years, there is no way I should be paying past 5 years especially given she can work

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                    • #11
                      Where is she going to live after March 1st? Her position will be that the kids deserve to be raised in same lifestyle that they have always enjoyed. If she has an addiction you have another problem. If you pay her lump sum to settle, and she blows through her money quickly, she will likely be back in court seeking increased support.

                      Where is she getting the percocet? Is she currently receiving treatment? Has she acknowledged it or are you going to go the hair follicle route? Things could get nasty (ier). You sound prepared though - good thing you thought to record things on your phone. Lousy thing to have to go through, especially as your kids are so young.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        While you say she "chose not to work" a court would view this that you acquiesced and therefore yours was a traditional marriage. She will argue that she put her career on hold to stay home and look after children and home, which allowed you to develop your career unfettered with child-care concerns (yes you both enjoyed the fruits of this).

                        I'd advise not to mention anything about her being young enough to remarry. LOL. Not everyone who marries does so looking to be supported.

                        Sounds like you have actively looked into your position. Hope things work out for you.

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                        • #13
                          The Mother of your children has a drug addiction and your OK with the current nesting situation? Being a physician you have way more knowledge on this than any poster here, but if I had knowledge of this, I'd be on it. Have you contacted CAS?? Have you considered trying to get her help, being in your position as a Dr and husband???

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kkc View Post
                            We will end up with 50/50 so i will also not accept a table amount (4k) of support as there is no way we ever spent that much on the kids per month.
                            Whether or not you choose to accept the table support values, those are the values. It is almost impossible to argue against them. I recognize that with 50-50 and her not working the table values are excessive, but the way to dispute that is through a section 9c argument, not by arguing that the tables are excessive.

                            https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...75/page-2.html

                            Spoiler: It won't work. Judges will order the setoff pretty much no matter what.

                            If it makes you feel better, at your salary level you probably do spend 4k on the kids per month. Having kids means that you have a bigger home and drive bigger cars. You likely have not included those expenses.

                            Does crushing her credibility do anything or is it all a numbers game?
                            It is all a numbers game. You are separated, you have an income, there are tables to look up exactly how much you should pay.

                            Also, while her actions might be personally enraging to you, when it comes to divorce, what she is doing is relatively small potatoes. Call us when she summons the police to file a fake domestic assault charge and keeps the kids away from you for a year because she thinks you might be a pedophile. You have proof that she has lied. Everyone lies in divorce proceedings, it is almost expected. There are no consequences.

                            The fact that you think you are almost certain to get 50% means that your ex is already not completely unreasonable.

                            I would love to settle and move on but again, anyone who will get divorced over a family member getting cancer is not a good person.
                            Don't forget to call her a narcissist. That's the other standard insult people use to describe their ex. I was going to suggest lazy as well but it seems you've already pulled that one out.

                            If you have a nice ex, you don't go to court.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Addiction been dealt with I hope
                              Legitimate Rx but over summer it got out of control.

                              In terms of me thinking 50 50 is bc that's all I will accept and with her history of violence towards me among other things it would be dumb for her to push the issue.

                              So if I am giving her 4k a month with us having 50 50 it means I'm paying another 4k for my kids. There is no way we spent 8k a month on kids.

                              She has kind of working for me as a nurse and briefly in office work.

                              I do have a good lawyer and hopefully can negotiate anything above that 150k.

                              Comment

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