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  • Quick Question about education and daycare

    <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->Ok so this is a quick summary of my question.
    I have education, mom has medical everything else is joint.
    My question is this does anyone have caselaw that states that daycare falls under education, or is a major decision to be made jointly with joint custody parents or is it a day to day desision that parents don't need to discuss.

    A little background. In the order the trial judge ordered that we appear before him in 5 months time to inform him on how we are doing with his order. Thats where I'm going wednesday next week.

    Anyhow the story. So this whole thing started when the daycare provider called CAS which gave mom the reason to hold the children, which in turn lead to 1 1/2 years of litigation. JD (the daycare provider) also made false statements in affidavits and to the OCL. Mom testifified at trial that she no longer talked or knew JD.
    Anyhow two months after trial my oldest starts JK and mom has to move back to the town I live in. Who does she move in with JD. Instead of getting city subsidy for daycare which she was ordered to do. She uses her friend to look after our youngest instead of sending her to the licenced daycare the children know in my town. The result I can't go see the daycare as it's in mom's home, can't talk to the daycare because of the false alligations. I believe this might be the start of a return back to court, but hoping it's not. BTW I fired this daycare provider once before becuase I was conserned with the care the children were getting this was done after seperation but before court started.

    Does anyone know if the courts view daycare as education or major (to be decided together) or day to day (not to be decided jointly).
    Again when the girls are with me they are in a licenced daycare.

  • #2
    Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
    Does anyone know if the courts view daycare as education or major (to be decided together) or day to day (not to be decided jointly).

    Again when the girls are with me they are in a licenced daycare.
    The court will more than likely want the children in a daycare that is neutral to the interests of both parents and only acts in the "best interests" of the children. To stabilize the children's routine and environment the court can and has often ordered that children attend a neutral daycare.

    If there is a third party that has already been involved in the matter and has proven that they are not neutral in the matter say a "friend" who is acting as a childcare provider it is highly doubtful that the courts will allow this to continue. Especially if that "friend" demonstrates a bias against one of the parents and has no positive history of child care with the children involved in the matter.

    The position that you should maintain with the court in the matter is that the children should be attending a neutral daycare that is properly licensed and professionally operated. The daycare should be working with both parents and it should be the same daycare provider when the children reside with both parents. This is in recognition of Rule 24 of the Children's Law Reform Act.

    The party "JD" you talk about has demonstrated already that they cannot act as a "neutral" party in the matter and that they have a bias. The position to take is that this person is not neutral, has a bias, has demonstrated this bias and it is not in the best interests of the children for them to be cared for by a biased third party who has already taken unnecessary action against you with CAS.

    I can only assume that this person in question providing child care has also provided some sort of sworn testimony in your previous matters that demonstrates their extreme bias against you.

    It is not in the children's best interests to have biased parties in their presence that call the CAS on you with possibly false allegations. One would question if they are able to care for the children in question without making negative statements about you as a parent.

    It is not in the children's best interests to be cared for a biased third party no matter how "professional" and "good" one of the parent's states they are. The caregiver's bias if demonstrated in unsubstantiated claims to CAS and affidavits is testimony to the fact that they are biased witnesses. Also, that they are intimately involved in the matter and have taken side with one of the litigants.

    Remember, everything to deal with children revolves around their "best interests" and not the parent's "best friends", family, and other negative advocates personal opinions based on hearsay statements that you are a danger to children and a bad parent. Their conduct in the matter is your best evidence as to why a neutral third party child care provider needs to be ordered.

    This thread may be of some assistance in determining how "professionals" should conduct themselves in legal matters concerning children and family law:

    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...tes-not-13976/

    It doesn't sound like the caregiver understands their role and responsibility to the children involved.

    If you need to shape your argument in the matter I highly recommend you read all the articles posted on family situations, separation and divorce from this website:

    http://www.yoursocialworker.ca

    Good Luck!
    Tayken
    Last edited by Tayken; 01-07-2013, 12:00 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Education and Daycare

      Thank you for the insight, this is the position I have been taking with our parenting coordinator however he hasn't listened. I now have to present it to the trial judge this wednesday. I am quite famiarlar with section 24 of the Children's Law Reform Act. Infact during my 14 day trial the judge constantly ask me to focus on that section.
      In his closing directions he asked me to not do a typical closing statement. But instead focus on rule 24 and how it applies to our family.
      But do you know of any caselaw that spells this out?

      Comment


      • #4
        Daycare = Education in my humble estimation.

        I cannot provide you sources to prove it, as I've never looked into it. But I imagine that would be an relatively easy thing to prove.

        Daycare (as well as being 'baby-sitter') is also very much a foundation for learning social skills and pre-school information (Basic ABC's and the like), does it not?

        Seems like that arguement would be a slam dunk to me.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree, my ex was even ordered to apply for subsidy, something which she says she has done, but here's the thing, you can't apply for subsidy unless your child is in a licensed daycare. Our children are when they are with me. They stay in her home when they are with her. Basically a friend who used to look after the children lives in the basement and watches the girls when mom is sleeping (she works nights).
          I was order not to come to her house, she mine, we each have a right communicate with all professionals. How can I communicate or inspect a daycare in mom's home when I'm not allowed there and when I'm not comfortable with the person who is looking after the children due to false statements she made in affidavits, to CAS and to OCL.
          It was funny in the OCL notes, at the end of the conversation this person asks the OCL "How to I get an order to stop the father of my unborn baby ever seeing my son" when I read that, it's like this person shouldn't ever be looking after anyone’s children with that attitude.
          I go before the trial judge on Wednesday. It’s an unofficial meeting before the judge to report on how things are going.

          Comment


          • #6
            So you have a court date 'to be spoken to'.

            What you do is gather all the pertinant FACTS you have, and prepare yoursef to present them to the Judge.

            Don't epect much to get done at this meeting. It sounds to me like the Judge is simply trying to make it fair for you and make sure all your ducks are in a row before proceeding.

            Ask the Judge questions about the issues and your perception of them. LOTS of them. The judge can help in some ways, and cannot in others. but there's no harm in asking fr the help in the first place.

            Comment


            • #7
              Where are you in the 'stream'?

              Have you had case conference? Settlement Conference? Trial Management Conference?

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm done, Last year I self represented myself during a 14 day trial strictly on custody and access, where I argued we weren't high conflict, that joint or paraelle parenting would work. Education was important to me, as I wanted the children to start school in my town (the town the children were brought home from birth in), I made the arguement that medical was important to mom. Mom wanted sole custody, my access to be reduced from 50%. There was a lot that I went through and I have a large library of documents which I'm preparing to share including OCL manuals for 1997 and 2006-2009.
                I had 5 calls to CAS including one placed by the OCL assessor herself. CAS was great they saw through the false aligations and there position at trial (mom's lawyer called two CAS workers) was that I was cooperative and involved in the children's lives, they had no protection conserns.
                I have a way to get information contained in CAS reports without actually getting the records themselves.
                I was also able to bring a urgent motion solely on access before the first appearence, something I understand the courts don't consider urgent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No, they don't consider it urgent.

                  I have been humbled by a Judge for bringing an emergency motion before case conference on that very issue.

                  So I don't understand why you have a court date if you're not in the stream?

                  And I would very much like to know how you are able to get CAS info. I find it to be very difficult.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The order stated that we are to return before him in 5 months time to report on our progress with regard to his order. it is not to reopen any arguements simply report to him on how we have followed the order.
                    He was a very wise judge.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Excellent. The judge has seized your file and taken a personal interest by the sounds of it.

                      Just show up with the facts (and documents to prove them), and I suspect you'll be JUST FINE.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Went before him, said he wasn't changing anything. Didn't care about daycare said mom could have who she wanted. I guess I have to accept that, I will not let her bad decisions ruin my outlook on life, I will not stress over this.

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                        • #13
                          Was the issue before the judge who was 'allowed' to?
                          Or whether or not payment was due considering it was a live in bf watching the child?

                          That was my understanding - you were concerned about paying for what would otherwise be normal household duties. Not whom was actually watching the child.

                          Wait. I think I`m confused... LOL
                          Last edited by wretchedotis; 01-10-2013, 01:10 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                            Was the issue before the judge who was 'allowed' to?
                            Or whether or not payment was due considering it was a live in bf watching the child?

                            That was my understanding - you were concerned about paying for what would otherwise be normal household duties. Not whom was actually watching the child.

                            Wait. I think I`m confused... LOL
                            The main issue was the person looking after the children. The person does live in the same house, but lives in a seperate apartment. The impression I got was that the judge wasn't going to claifiy anything on his order and wasn't going to hear any arguements. Yesterdays date and the reason for it was simply to instill fear in the both of us to follow the court order. Now thats it's done we'll see how things go. We are now done in family court with regard to access and custody.

                            I still have other issues with property and a car mom took off with and left me with debt. We were common law. She agreed when she took the car that she would pay the loan. She made 4 payments then when I filed in court she stopped. I will need to put that in now in court. But thats another thread.

                            Comment

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