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  • #31
    HammerHEad: Thank you for your reply and I agree with your points.
    What I don't understand when everybody talks about no court or parent can make a 14 or 15 year old do what they don't want to do and than when the issue arises it is the opposite. Maybe these children do have a valid reason for not wanting to see their Father (at this time) but if nobody is listening to the children how can authorities make decisions? A Judge is making decisions based on a CL which has revealed nothing about what the kids have expressed to her? That's not right. I am definitely in agreement that children should maintain a relationship with both parents, but there are situations where a different approach to that is necessary. Force is not fixing anything. The kids go and see their Father because they have to not because they want to and he is no further ahead - he still has problem with his kids. He got what HE wanted (to see his kids) but how is that solving anything? They might hate him eventually or just wait until they of legal age. If the Father doesn't see that, why doesn't anybody in the Family Court system come up with a better approach? They are supposed to be the experts!

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    • #32
      I know this is an older post - I just came across this conversation between you and the other members. Very interesting.
      My sisters co-workers just went through this. She is separated, 2 children (15, 12) and she is in and out of court since January. First he cut the CS (with lies) to below the guideline and now it is the battle about the access. The kids are refusing to go with their father. The Mother told them they have to go and brought the kids to the meeting place. They refused to get out of the car and told their Father why they don't want to go. All I know is there have been very dramatic incidents and issues during the past 3 years and the relationship between the father and the kids is very damaged. He is putting constant pressure and force on the kids and is not listening what they have to say. A different approach would most likely help: meaning - back off for a while, give them some space and let them know you understand their feelings etc. and with patience and understanding is might all work out IN TIME. The kids have a Children's Lawyer and the issue was in court for a conference with the Judge. The CL did not say anything what the kids told her and reason why they don't want to see their father at this time or at least not every 2 weeks on a set schedule. The CL just said after her investigation: yes the relationship is seriously damaged but she feels the kids have to keep up the contact with their Father, it's not up to them to make decisions, they are not running the show here. Tell me if I'm wrong, this is just make the kids hate their father and in no way can fix a relationship with force especially not with teenagers. The Judge has not ruled yet and there will be another session. It does not make sense to me: The CL had a meeting with the Mother and the kids, the Father and the kids, the kids by themselves, a one on one with the 15 year old and another meeting with the Father and the kids. The CL lawyer knew everything what happened, had mountains of documents (e-mails etc.) the kids told her they don't want to see him and also said it with their Father present. She did not say any of this in court! She just said the kids told her: they just want the fighting to stop. (which btw the kids didn't say). I was under the impression a CL is suppose to give the children a voice meaning speaking in their behalf and tell a Judge what their wishes are. What the Judge decides is a different story. This looks to me that this CL has taken sides between the parents and is not doing her job as a representative for the children. She feels that it is in the best interest of the children to continue seing their Father and in time it will work out. What she is saying: keep forcing them and eventually they will give up. That's not fixing the problem! What do you think of that? I would be interested in your comment. Thank you.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 007 View Post
        What I don't understand when everybody talks about no court or parent can make a 14 or 15 year old do what they don't want to do and than when the issue arises it is the opposite.
        We make them go to school don't we?

        We do make kids do certain things because it is in their best interests and because, well....they are kids and they need to learn that there are things in this world that they will do because they should do it, whether or not they want to. Why? Because once they grow up, the world isn't going to coddle them.

        The OCL likely heard what the kids had to say and felt that what they said didn't merit changing the parenting time regime. As such, they advised the judge on the matters they believed of relevence.

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        • #34
          007:

          My question would be:

          If your coworker wasn't divorced...and the kids were having an issue inside the marital home with their dad, what would she do? Would she tell the kids it was ok to never speak or see their dad again if they weren't divorcing?

          I used to have arguments with my parents all the time when I was a teenager and never want to see them again. I shudder to think the damage I would have done to myself and my parents longterm if I had actually been able to do that for real.

          Kid's go through phases...they get angry...the exercise whatever control and power they have when they're angry. The next day or week or month they change their mind...they're kids.

          Its a parent's job to think clearly for the LONGTERM development of their kids. In the exception of abusive situations, it is in the longterm best interest of any child to have a relationship with both parents. Period.

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          • #35
            The reason the kids are having a problem is because they think they have a choice.

            The problem was giving them the idea that they can pick who to live with and who to deal with.

            Kids should be raised by both parents when both parents want that.

            I don't apply the 'best interests of the children test' to this situation.

            I love my kids and raising them is a huge part of MY life. That should not be taken away from me by the courts or my ex even if she was the better parent and it was in the kids best interests. Married or single parent are not subjected to this scrutiny, why should I?

            Overall I think it is in the kids best interest in the long run anyway - I don't want my kids to grow up and have kids and have them taken away simply because their ex is a better parent. Or at the worst because their ex gives that impression to the kids and then tells the kids they can choose to stop being parented by the other parent.

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            • #36
              Good points everybody - thanks. I don't really like the school comparison. Kids sometimes don't want to go to school because they have an examine they didn't study for but in general they like school because all their friends are there. Also the school does not disappoint them, lie to them and leave them. If my kids would refuse to go to school than I would be more concerned about something is going on - like being bullied or something about a teacher. All I wanted to say and this is just my opinion, the kids should at least be heard and a CL should at least tell a Judge what they said. Otherwise what's the point of interviews? How would a Judge know there is not more to it. Regardless, there is an issue present and the Father has a damaged relationship with his kids and that cannot be fixed with force. If he wants to be part of their lives, he has to come up with a better approach or get some parenting counseling. Apparently there have been problems prior to the divorce and the relationship with the kids deteriorated do to the Father having affairs and not being around or better - not having time for his kids. It's a tough situation - any which way - nobody wins but the kids always loose. At the beginning of the post one of the Members had a similar issue and the answer was - Quote: "There is nothing the parents, courts or anybody can do. You cannot make a 15 years old go where they don't wan to be" Now this is completely opposite. Just a different opinion or a fact?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 007 View Post
                Quote: "There is nothing the parents, courts or anybody can do. You cannot make a 15 years old go where they don't wan to be" Now this is completely opposite. Just a different opinion or a fact?
                it is both. The court cannot do ANYTHING to the children to force them to see a parent if they don't want to (after 14). BUT what they CAN do is pinish a parent who is not doing everything they can to encourage a relationship with BOTH parents.

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                • #38
                  Excellent answer - You have put this in the right prospective - now this makes sense to me.

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                  • #39
                    My name is Joseph Goldberg and I think I can help you
                    with the problem you are having. It sounds to me like you
                    may have problems with parental alienation. Are you at
                    all familar with this term ? I am an expert in this field and
                    I work helping parents and their lawyers on these types
                    of cases.
                    Please visit my website at - Goldberg & Associates
                    If you would like to contact me directly please write to me
                    at jgoldberg@cspas.org ( I am also the Founder of the
                    Canadian Sympsoium for Parental Alienation Syndrome.)
                    I do charge a fee for a consultation. Perhaps if you would
                    like to go into more details with me I can tell you how I'd
                    be able to best help you.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      There are many on this forum acutely familiar with PAS/PA. There are also some *rules* that apply to members of this forum and you should probably review them before you blitz this board with soliciting members for your services. There's no such thing as free advertising last time I checked, unless ofcourse you put a sign on your car and drive all across town, all day long.

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                      • #41
                        Is there any way of getting the bottom feeder banned?Cant imagine that his spam has any ones but his,best interests at heart.

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                        • #42
                          ML: send a pm to *Blink and Mess*. I'm on my BB phone and it's hard for me to see very well...

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                          • #43
                            I've reported a couple posts already...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                              I've reported a couple posts already...
                              I am currently reviewing the "expert" website associated to the person posting these advertisements.

                              A suspicious quote from the person in question that is highly questionable (from website associated with the person in question) is:

                              "I'm a Consultant for Family Law Attorney's and Targeted Parents only."

                              Key element for everyone to realise is the "Targeted Parents only" point. Under any finding of PAS/HAP it is a mental health issue for the child in question and not the "targeted parent only".

                              I would highly recommend that if someone wants to deal with an expert on HAP/PAS that they work with a neutral third party and seek assistance through the OCL and Section 30 to bring forward any "expert" in these matters.

                              The bias of the "expert" in question presents deeply on the personal "story" (hearsay) from the website.

                              As there is no diagnosis category for PAS/HAP there is no one who can qualify as an expert in this area. It takes a careful investigation of a clinician who works with the children, parents and all involved parties to resolve any mental health related issues.

                              Also, no clinical background but, advocacy... Who needs to pay 250/200 for information you can get off other websites for free? I can put up a pile of clinical texts that demolish the arguments for PAS "diagnosis".

                              One sided opinions are just that... One sided. Try and bring the "expert" in question forward to give evidence to court. Good luck with that one.

                              Profiting from the "fears" and/or "anxieties" of others seems to be the major objective in the "expert" in question's website and postings.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken

                              Comment

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