My lawyer quit!

[billiechic]

I've had several issues with her.
First, her notes for the OCL disclosure were not correct, and she did not provide them to me when asked.

Second, she sent me a bill for 8 hours last week, we were only in court for 3 (and she was late). Tried to tell me that it takes 3 hours to make corrections to the minutes of settlement and for a final order.

Third, there was a mistake in the billing (right) where she billed me for two phone conversations with ex's lawyer, oine the day after the other. it was "accidentally billed" when I inquired wqhy she needed a 45 minute phone call with her one day, and a follow up of 35 mninutes the next when they were accepting my offer. She removed one phone call

Fourth, she gave me a courtesy discount for a few phone calls and emails that her clerrk initiated to deal with Christm,as access. You might recall that my ex and I worked it out together without their help and I feel that ther was no way she could bill me for that since I didn't even contact them.

Seems she is really upset that I have questioned her. Said that I have been rude and tried to blame me since I admitted to being under stress and apologised for a hurried email. She however has admitted no fault, and has continued to be condecending to me.

She hasn't sent the revised bill yet, but I am very seriously thinking of reporting this. I told the clerk when I paid my retainer that I wanted to take on as much of the file work as possible and my lawyer is claiming that becasue I gaave that instruction to the clerk that it is invalid, that she does not let her clients handle any of the work.

I am just so confused. I feel like I've been treated like garbage and she has out right lied to me (denies that she told me that I would have to take care of the financials with my ex myself-she told me outside the courtroom) Just becasue we have settled does not mean that I have to be happy with her work. She seems to think that because the job got done that I should just STFU and be on my way.

Opinions? How much work is filing a complaint?

[NBDad]

Legally she has to provide you with a complete run down of how your retainer was spent.

Filing a complaint is easy, whether it goes anywhere is another story.

Typically if you check the law society for your province they have the complaint process outlined.

[billiechic]

Thanks, that's good to know. When she hands over my file will she also have to include any notes she made? I have asked her for details and copies of notes, and she has not provided them.

As far as I can tell, I'm all paid up. The accounting has been very confusing though, so I think I'll ask for a complete copy of the accounting, as every time there was money taken from the retainer or topped up it was shown seperately.

[dadtotheend]

I didn't think she has the option of quitting. I think she is bound to continue for you as long as she is getting paid. Maybe that's what she is going to lean on.

Were you rude in that hurried email, even if under stress? I remember a time when we had a significant setback in my case and I really gave it the lawyer and her assistant. The partner ended up calling me to smooth things over and in hindsight I realize that I was a little hard on her.

Did you allow travel time in the 8 hours?

If your lawyer was the one who drafted the order from the minutes of settlement, there would have some clerical time for her support staff and some review time before having it go to the other side for review as to form and content. An extra couple of hours wouldn't be wholly unreasonable.

I'm not saying that your wrong. If she is padding the hours, then she deserves to get wrung out over it.

But if her experience has been that each bill becomes an argument over time, her frustration may be understandable. You have cited a few occaisions here and in the past where you have taken issue with her time.

Is it possible that some of the time spent in those two phone calls ended up being a tipping point where she was able to secure settlement for you? And that maybe she feels that rather than being challenged she should be congratulated for her negotiating skills that may have been a factor in you obtaining settlement?

Most of us, myself included, detest the $$ that lawyers command, especially because they have cornered the market. The hugely high stakes that are involved in family law in particular magnify that sentiment.

Morover, the stakes force many of us into a game that we otherwise have no business being in. Consequently we becomes extra sensitive to the time spent and the expectations about quality of work.

I gotta tell you something you might not want to hear and I know this from experienceing it myself as a professional.

She may well be regarding you as a problem client. You have made a number of posts indicating the two of you have disagreed.

Have you nitpicked a lot with her? Is every bill a dispute about time spent? How much has she billed you so far all in? Looking at this as frankly as you can, have you questioned her expertise a lot?

I'm not saying either of you is to blame. No one here can assess one side of the story accurately. But it does seem from here that there has been a lot of disagreement.

RANT begin:

In my practice, I can spot problem clients a mile away. Mostly they come in and are immediately overly concerned about fees. I have a client who I quoted a $2K for 10 years of tax returns and she is getting over $60K in tax refunds. Of that $60K, $6K of is from suggestions I have made where some discretion has been exercised and where I feel confident that she is within the rules. She is very detail oriented and so far we have only done five years. She wants the job done, but she is constantly behind in submitting her end of the work. She comes back with minute changes to work that has already been finalized with her approval. I told her that the time is up to $1,400 now. She was taken aback!! Hello, big picture??? She doesn't see that my expertise has generated refund $$ that are three times what I propose to bill her!?!? Heaven help me if I suggest that we have had a very good outcome and that she might consider that at payment time.

They often question the expertise of the professional and have difficulty trusting the advice given. They want to pay the least they can, they want time to pay, yet they require extra time to have it explained to them and they need to hear it five times over. And then they complain because they get billed for needless time that was spent explaining stuff over and over again.

They get offended when they call up asking a "quick question" that takes 15 minutes and then they get billed for it. They fail to realize that four 15 minute phone calls add up to an hour. They don't respect your time or your expertise.

It's maddening. But at least with experience the problem client becomes easy to spot. So I just politely refer to them to the competition now.

RANT end.

I'm not saying that is you, but often times it boils down to wanting premuim hand held service at bargain rates.

I am surprised that she has done this at the very end of your rope. You are so close to closing the file that things must be very tense b/w you.

It's too bad that you have that bitter taste in your mouth. This is a time where you should be feeling the weight lifted from your shoulders and enjoying your being able to move your life forward. Maybe taking a couple of days to reflect on this a little before communicating with her again is a good idea.

[tugofwar]

Billie, Im sorry you are now faced with this new problem. I don't think you were a bad client and by no means reason for dismissal.
I have said alot of crap to my lawyer, questioned them a number of times, called them out on their mistakes, sent emails regarding our relationship and insulted them a few times.

They have to understand the pressure we feel, the emotions that happen and have patience in dealing with us and our ex's.

But you have paid them for a service and have every reason to be able to question them, the work they produced etc. If you are not happy with the way something went, you should be able to address it. I know everyone is only human, but honestly there are far too many mistakes happening and lawyers should be more alert and make sure that they ensure accuracy.

[billiechic]

no, I haven't been a PITA. I've only questioned one other bill.

The drive from her office to the court is max half an hour. We were at court for 3 hours, therefore I allowed 4 hours. She herself typed up the minutes of settlement, when a clerk could have done it. And charged me 3 hours to do that. They were already typed up and there were only corrections to be made. I did all the legwork writing the offer and all she had to do was pretty it up.

yes, I went off on her before, but I was NEVER rude. I gave her several chances to explain and she never did. I even apologised to her when I told her that her emails were condecending. She is being vindictive.

I hear what you are saying DTTE, and I appreciate it. I've questioned myself over and over again about this lawyer and despite giving her every benefit of the doubt, there is a rather nasty taste in my mouth about it. Frankly the only reason I stayed was probably becasue her clerk was so efficient and able to keep her from blowing her lid. Said clerk went on MAt leave Jan 1.

Oh, and she did not have 2 conversations with the otehr counsel, I was double billed and she has since corrected it. but not sent me a bill.

I still have all emails back and forth, and she nitpicked through them to make me look bad. Honestly, I know that this is not right. But I don't know if I want another fight on my hands. I'm so sick of fighting with people and I just want some peace for once. WWYD?

[dadtotheend]

In that case, I would tell her go screw herself.

But only after I kissed her ass and made nice for the sole purpose of finalizing all the orders and closing the file. And I would ensure that there was a nice balance owing that she can write off at the end.

Not high enough to make it worth her while to chase you in small claims court, but high enough to get back what she ripped you off on.

Would $2,000 be good?

[InterprovincialParents]

It is common practise for a lawyer to charge a minimum of 5 hours for a court appearance, since that is the average they wait/cannot be at the office...and you pay for their travel time to and from the office and court...any time spent on your file is charged to your file, even if it is the half-hour cabride...There are prescribed fees...and they can be found at the attorney general's website.

[dinkyface]

...any time spent on your file is charged to your file, even if it is the half-hour cabride...

That's why I share a cab with my lawyer back from the courthouse (and if possible, to, as well). If I'm paying for that time, I want to have the opportunity to use it.

[InterprovincialParents]

That's why I share a cab with my lawyer back from the courthouse (and if possible, to, as well). If I'm paying for that time, I want to have the opportunity to use it.

Most clients never think of that...lol

[blinkandimgone]

Thanks, that's good to know. When she hands over my file will she also have to include any notes she made? I have asked her for details and copies of notes, and she has not provided them.

I don't 'know' the answer but I would imagine that if the notes were made during the times she was paid by you then you would be enititled to have them, afterall you did pay for the work!

[tugofwar]

After court, I always walk them to their office....lol. Oh parked down close to office, have to go to bank etc. This way I have a few more minutes to pick their brain and squeeze some more time.

[dadtotheend]

It is common practise for a lawyer to charge a minimum of 5 hours for a court appearance, since that is the average they wait/cannot be at the office...and you pay for their travel time to and from the office and court...any time spent on your file is charged to your file, even if it is the half-hour cabride...There are prescribed fees...and they can be found at the attorney general's website.

That's just absolutely wrong.

They charge a minimum based on an average. But if they go over the average they charge extra. They should charge actual time. PERIOD.

Fucking highway robbery.

[billiechic]

taht is the crap she tried to spew at me. But I calculated for that leeway. How can she charge me for 5 hours at court if she was only there for 3? That isn't right!

Unfortunately, I am all paid up I think DTTE. She asked for a cheque to be brought to court said that should cover it, and then sends me a bill for another amount to top up my retainer. She's fucking done..why should I put the money into the retainer again?

I'm not going to deal with it for a couple of days. Need to go through all the emails back and forth and see if I can come up with something worth filing a complaint about. No point wasting my time doing it if I don't have written proof. I know it is wrong, but I don't want to waste my time getting stressed if there's nothing to come out of it. Would rather just walk away.

Maybe after this is over I'll let you all know who she is. Just so nobody retains her and suffers...

[dadtotheend]

I wonder how many times she has had two or more different matters at the same time in the same court and been out of there is less than five hours but charges 5 hours to each client.

I don't care the Law Society or the tariff or Attorney General says. That's just stealing. Another reason why lawyers are perceived as scum.

Greedy pigs.