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  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Parenting Issues

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #31  
Old 02-14-2019, 01:11 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Thanks. Things are good here. Some changes here and there, but normal for most people in life.


To the OP, we are not being judgmental here. We know you truly believe your position, and bet your ex truly believes theirs. We are getting your side of the story, and most here are playing devils advocate in an attempt to help you better understand what you will be up against with your ex and their lawyer.


Is there a good chance your ex gets 50/50? We don't know. We have what you are saying, but we won't be there to see what evidence you have to back up your positions, and what evidence your ex will provide to refute those positions. You may feel that it is in the best interests of the children that they reside primarily with you, but feelings aren't evidence and judges generally don't care about them. You will need to put your feelings to the side and prove to a judge why your recommendation is in the children's best interests should you end up in court.


HammerDad is actually a fantastic poster who has had his own difficult ex that involved a fight. Listen to his advice. You don’t have to take it, but you should consider it carefully.

You should also go in and read canlii cases on custody. Specifically cases on costs and custody. There have been some doozies where tens of thousands of dollars has been won to pay for legal costs. Best to set yourself up with what you want and what you can live with. Negotiating will be much easier that way. Spousal support is negotiable, child support is not.
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2019, 08:30 PM
lorely lorely is offline
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Thank you. I will. I appreciate all the advices and at the end the judgements as well.
It's being a year of hell and it will continue for a while I know it very well.
What kind of evidence is acceptable for court if I will end up in court? Lawyer said videos when he is drunk but a friend said to call Police if he is drunk and being verbaly abusive, that video will not withstand in court.
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  #33  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:17 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is online now
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Originally Posted by lorely View Post
Thank you. I will. I appreciate all the advices and at the end the judgements as well.
It's being a year of hell and it will continue for a while I know it very well.
What kind of evidence is acceptable for court if I will end up in court? Lawyer said videos when he is drunk but a friend said to call Police if he is drunk and being verbaly abusive, that video will not withstand in court.
Video/Calling cops when he’s drunk: You are already split up and living separate correct? So realistically the only times you are really around him are during drop offs/pick ups, and occasionally some special events/functions? If he is showing up to pick up or drop off the kids and is drunk I’m not sure why your lawyer would tell you to pull out your phone and start filming.... you call the cops and have them breathalyze/arrest him for impaired driving. That sort of proof holds up way better in court than a home video does. Other than that though, I’m not sure in what instances you are supposed to “video” him while he is drunk?? Ya maybe if you were still living together and he was hammered raging around the house throwing shit at the kids, but that doesn’t sound like the case here. PLEASE keep in mind that “my kids father is an alcoholic” is one of the main reasons judges hear from mothers who don’t want to allow 50/50. My current partner’s ex tried to pull this crap, it didn’t fly. And the judge let her have it. If he is TRULY an alcoholic and it affects his ability to parent while he has the kids you may want to gather the following:
-police reports/charges laid in the past that show a STRONG history of alcohol abuse (more so ones that have affected the children) one intoxicated in public charge from 6 years ago isnÂ’t going to hold much weight
-OCL report may provide insight

The following are NOT reasons to keep your children from their father/tell the judge he is an alcoholic:

-He gets hammered any single time he is not with the kids
-He has a couple beer when he is around the kids (and isnÂ’t driving them anywhere). There is nothing wrong with this.
-You are mad because he spends a lot of money going to bars (when he doesnÂ’t have the kids) and you feel that this money would be better spent on something for the kids

Here is my advice:
*Unless he actually is a raging alcoholic who canÂ’t stay sober around his kids- and you have solid proof of it*
-Let him have 50/50 immediately, even while you are still working your way through the legal stuff
-Establish a schedule that works for the children (perhaps week on/week off as they are older?)
-Pay the offset amount for child support immediately (seems to be a tough bullet to bite for you, but better for that money to be going towards your kids than lining the pockets of a lawyer)
-Be SUPER supportive of the childrenÂ’s relationship with their father
-Play the waiting game. If he is what you say he is the following will happen a) He will grow impatient with the children. Especially if one has special needs. He will begin to ask that you pick up the kids before his week is over, or ask that you take them occasionally so he can have a “break”. Be SUPER nice about this. Don’t accuse him of failing as a parent etc. SILENTLY DOCUMENT all of these instances. b) if he is money hungry as you say, you are only paying offset. This will not be enough money for him to “stick it out”. He will begin to think that a couple hundred bucks a month is not worth it to be constantly responsible for his kids, plus they will be cutting into his alcoholic drinking time, right?
-If you already have a final order at this point, file for a motion to change. If you are still in litigation, show your schedule documentation to the judge and stick to your request for primary residence based on the fact that he has no interest in a true 50/50 set up
-Alternative ending: Dad enjoys time with children. Becomes a super involved 50/50 parent. Mom has 50% of time to herself to tend to her own needs/hobbies/career/education. Kids get to see both parents regularly and thrive. Mom, dad and kids win. Lawyers loose.
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  #34  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:42 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorely View Post
Thank you. I will. I appreciate all the advices and at the end the judgements as well.
It's being a year of hell and it will continue for a while I know it very well.
What kind of evidence is acceptable for court if I will end up in court? Lawyer said videos when he is drunk but a friend said to call Police if he is drunk and being verbaly abusive, that video will not withstand in court.
My first question is WHY are you both still living there?

If he's getting drunk and being verbally abusive- why are you keeping the kids around it?

I'm side-eyeing a lawyer who tells you to whip out your phone to videotape stuff. You know what gets angry drunks even angrier? Trying to videotape them. I know this from experience.

This seems pretty piss poor advice from your lawyer to be honest.

Trying to videotape the other party during a tirade is a BAD idea. It inflames the situation and potentially puts you and your kids at risk if your husband is prone to violence.

Additionally- if you read family law cases that involve one parent videotaping the other- EVEN where one parent is clearly doing something heinous...the judge usually slaps down the parent with the camera in their hand- because they are not helping the situation.

The one exception I've seen on this though- and unfortunately it seems like its happened to members of this forum- IF he's going to accuse you of something- keep a tape recorder - or your phone around.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2019, 10:15 AM
HammerDad HammerDad is online now
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Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
My first question is WHY are you both still living there?

If he's getting drunk and being verbally abusive- why are you keeping the kids around it?

Because if they both are still residing in the matrimonial home, should one parent unilaterally remove the children without an agreement in place relating to custody etc., the other parent could get an order to return the child(ren) to their familiar residence. And absence any solid evidence/reasoning why the child(ren) wouldn't be returned, the judge is likely to make such an order.






Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
I'm side-eyeing a lawyer who tells you to whip out your phone to videotape stuff. You know what gets angry drunks even angrier? Trying to videotape them. I know this from experience.

This seems pretty piss poor advice from your lawyer to be honest.

Trying to videotape the other party during a tirade is a BAD idea. It inflames the situation and potentially puts you and your kids at risk if your husband is prone to violence.

This I agree with. If they are both residing together, the OP should be carrying around a digital voice recorder to protect themselves. While the recordings (be they audio or video) may not be admissible, it could provide some leverage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
Additionally- if you read family law cases that involve one parent videotaping the other- EVEN where one parent is clearly doing something heinous...the judge usually slaps down the parent with the camera in their hand- because they are not helping the situation.

The one exception I've seen on this though- and unfortunately it seems like its happened to members of this forum- IF he's going to accuse you of something- keep a tape recorder - or your phone around.

Yup. Judges don't like one sided clips. Most understand that there is a before and an after to the recording. The brief video of someone behaving poorly is of little value. Further, there is a vast degree of "verbal abuse". Judges hear these accusations all the time. The put little weight on it because they understand that they have 2 people who obviously aren't getting along and are in a highly emotional state, and it is common to have disagreements and arguments. It is the nature of the process.


Regarding the drinking. If the ex is stumbling drunk around the kids, I would note it. Especially if it a regular occurrence. But otherwise, it is of little consequence. If they are driving the kids while drinking, that is a completely different ball game and the police should be notified ASAP.


Accusations of alcoholism and abuse are as common as water in divorce cases. Unless you can prove it somehow, they will gain a person little ground.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:02 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Because if they both are still residing in the matrimonial home, should one parent unilaterally remove the children without an agreement in place relating to custody etc., the other parent could get an order to return the child(ren) to their familiar residence. And absence any solid evidence/reasoning why the child(ren) wouldn't be returned, the judge is likely to make such an order.
These are both individuals of means...I don't see why, if there's this level of tension, they don't come up with a nesting arrangement...but then again- I guess I wouldn't want to leave my kids in the house with a parent who's prone to drinking to excess.

Quote:
Regarding the drinking. If the ex is stumbling drunk around the kids, I would note it. Especially if it a regular occurrence. But otherwise, it is of little consequence. If they are driving the kids while drinking, that is a completely different ball game and the police should be notified ASAP.


Accusations of alcoholism and abuse are as common as water in divorce cases. Unless you can prove it somehow, they will gain a person little ground.
This is where I disagree. As a child of an alcoholic- it's of great consequence. Having a parent who is stumbling around drunk and being belligerent and angry when drunk is damaging. Not good.

If you're talking divorce strategy when you say "of little consequence"- again disagree. This is where- if you want to talk strategics- she should get him to counselling to see if he can address his substance use. Put it on record that it's an issue. Keep telling people this is an issue- JUST NOT YOUR KIDS THOUGH.

OP- you've been at this for a year...where are you guys in the process? Aside from lawyers- have you had any other professionals work with your family? Are you high conflict? How are your kids handling it?
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  #37  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:35 PM
HammerDad HammerDad is online now
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Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
This is where I disagree. As a child of an alcoholic- it's of great consequence. Having a parent who is stumbling around drunk and being belligerent and angry when drunk is damaging. Not good.

If you're talking divorce strategy when you say "of little consequence"- again disagree. This is where- if you want to talk strategics- she should get him to counselling to see if he can address his substance use. Put it on record that it's an issue. Keep telling people this is an issue- JUST NOT YOUR KIDS THOUGH.

OP- you've been at this for a year...where are you guys in the process? Aside from lawyers- have you had any other professionals work with your family? Are you high conflict? How are your kids handling it?

I say it is of little consequence as it is just the OP suggesting that the STBX is an alcoholic. There is no evidence that the ex is getting loaded daily and is unable to control themselves. Unless the ex has a DUI or other alcohol related charge, it is unlikely to have much impact to the judges determination.


I also say it is of little consequence because the courts hear these accusations all the time and have become desensitized to it. I would guess that 1 in 2 to 1 in 3 divorces have this or a similar accusation.



Alcoholism is a real thing. I get that. And I would never dismiss its impacts on families. But there needs to be more than the mere accusation. Because if that is all one has, it will become a he said/she said matter and a judge will treat it as such.
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
If he's getting drunk and being verbally abusive- why are you keeping the kids around it?
Are you suggesting self-help or a motion?
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  #39  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:29 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is online now
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Are you suggesting self-help or a motion?
Either or....try to get help- for dad..and for the kids. Not for legal strategies-but to actually help the kids. If she thinks he's truly dangerous- then I'm guessing she would've gotten the kids out a long time ago. So I guess I'm not suggesting a motion.
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  #40  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:48 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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What I find difficult in this situation is this attitude of “how do I ensure he doesn’t get the kids” rather than “what is a fair situation in light of these problems”. In many of these cases you can read between the lines.

Look at many of the reasonable posters here. Many of them say “I want my kids to have the best thing for them but there these issues. How can I work with my ex to make it happen?”

Then there are those who come right in with “How do I protect MY interests?” Those posters are pretty transparent in that they start with difficulties that protect them. Funny how the OP didn’t mention the verbal abuse, drinking, child care or contribution issues until pushed to consider 50/50. Even the first post was about offset cs.

There was another poster (who must be struggling as they haven’t posted much) who had an alcoholic ex. They had 50/50 and the poster (mom) worked very hard to manage her difficult ex with her child’s best interests in mind. When she finally came here and said something along the lines of “is this a problem to warrant a change in custody?” it was for her ex showing up at the school drunk and the school called mom. Her concern was her child’s safety but also HER CHILDS ACCESS TO THEIR DAD. I was amazed that part of her worry (a small part, safety was paramount) was taking her child away from their dad. Their father was putting them in physical danger. Mom prioritized the child’s immediate and short term safety first and then considered what she could do to help her child and her ex to ensure he still had access (even if it was limited and/or supervised) to his child. My ex is an asshole vs my child’s father has some problems that concern me.

I haven’t seen any of this here which is why I don’t believe much of the allegations against dad. You are divorcing your ex. Your children should not be forced to divorce their parent.

Last edited by rockscan; 02-15-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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