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  • #46
    Some hope for 2nd families comes from the U.S.

    The Tennessee Court of Appeals sent an important message last week--second families count.

    The court ruled in a case in which a Memphis father faced an 80% increase in his child support, and the father argued that the expense of raising two children in his current marriage should be considered in figuring how much he should pay to support a third child from a previous relationship.
    Current child support guidelines prohibit financial considerations for children from second families, except under extreme circumstances. The court found that these guidelines "violate the equal protection guarantees of the federal and state constitutions." The court's recognition of the needs of children of second families is long overdue. According to Jan Larson, author of Understanding Stepfamilies, one out of every three Americans is now either a stepchild, stepparent, a stepsibling, or some other member of a stepfamily. US Census Bureau reports that over half of all first marriages eventually end in divorce, and roughly 75 percent of divorced men and women will remarry. Yet our laws, family courts, and public discourse generally ignore second families and their concerns.

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    • #47
      Just a quick queston to the second families. If you were a first family would you happily tell your ex "Sure give me less CS so you have more money for your second family" Heck say he/she was to divorce you and start a third family, would you be eager and happy to give up some of the child support for your child(ren)

      Please be truthful, the third family thing could happen to you in the future or whenever. I am sure the first family thought they would be together forever also.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by standing on the sidelines
        Just a quick queston to the second families. If you were a first family would you happily tell your ex "Sure give me less CS so you have more money for your second family" Heck say he/she was to divorce you and start a third family, would you be eager and happy to give up some of the child support for your child(ren)

        Please be truthful, the third family thing could happen to you in the future or whenever. I am sure the first family thought they would be together forever also.
        That could happen and the bottom line is that there is no provision in the child support guidelines to accommodate that situation other than a hardship clause. Can you imagine if reducing first and second family obligations was contested and litigated - what would be the cost of litigation.

        Why not reform the guidelines, One idea would be:

        If the payor has two or three children - then the amount derived from using the payable amount table for 2-3 children with respect to the payors income should be split across the different families equally. Just a thought and then all the children would be supported equally based on the payors income regardless if they are from a first family, second family or third family. Also this would allow the payor to retain a portion of their salary so that perhaps they could maintain some sort of shelter so they have a place to exercise the children's access.

        Another idea would be to have the guidelines consider the NCP's income along with the CP's income when determining a reasonable amount of child support after all its "both" parents obligation to support the children.

        Just some thoughts


        lv

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        • #49
          Originally posted by standing on the sidelines
          Just a quick queston to the second families. If you were a first family would you happily tell your ex "Sure give me less CS so you have more money for your second family" Heck say he/she was to divorce you and start a third family, would you be eager and happy to give up some of the child support for your child(ren)

          Please be truthful, the third family thing could happen to you in the future or whenever. I am sure the first family thought they would be together forever also.
          I have wondered this too... especially given that statistically second marriages don't even last as long as first ones these days.

          What about if there were a clause as there is with EI where you can earn a little money without being penalized? What if NCP's had a certain percentage they could earn "on the side" that the CP could not come after? Would that be going into too dangerous a zone?

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          • #50
            In a lot of cases CS (and extras) are too high, regardless of if there is a second family involved or not, in my husbands case taking 50% his net salary.

            In Australia they take a base amount off the payors income for any 2nd children he is obligated to support as well. So they might subtract 4000 (for one kid from 2nd marriage) off his income, and base CS on his income minus 4000.

            At the same time, they made tax breaks available to both parents, and they looked at both the NCP and the CP's households income to determine what level of CS EACH parent is obligated to contribute.

            To answer your question, most CP's (as you can tell from this board) would not happily tell their ex "give me less so you can support more kids" however the reality is that when you divorce another person, it is quite likely he/she will have additional children. If the system was set up to be fair to ALL children, CP's would be aware, when they make the choice to divorce, that they might get a little less in the future. It would be part of what they accept can happen in our modern society. It shouldn't really be a big deal.

            This post was written about a situation where we are forced to pay CS and then had a 100% increase in our CS with the addition of extra expenses. The CP doesn't contribute anything, and spends on her "courses". So we could just as easily ask that question in reverse:

            "How many people think children in a 2nd family should suffer because the CP for the first children is not held accountable (by our legal system) to contribute financially to herself or her children after a divorce?"

            It's all in the way you phrase it. I don't think many people out there think innocent children should suffer because a grown women doesn't want to work but would rather work the system, take from taxpayers, and get 50% of her ex's salary.

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            • #51
              I think that every case should be taken on their merits.
              Take into consideration both household incomes, and go from there.

              It's obvious we have various situations as is clear from the many, many posts on this one thread.
              You have the first families where the CP works their butt off with little or no support from the ex since the ex has diverted income to the second family un-proportionately. Then you have cases where the ex is paying proportionately greater amounts to the first family where that CP chooses not to give 100% to help with the costs of raising the children and his new family takes the hit.

              The list is endless for variations when we are dealing with a society where it is common to be in a second or even third relationship and the laws have not caught up. It's no different then getting other laws reinforced. Nothing changes until something terrible has happened, or someone (usually a lot of some ones) gets hurt due to a lack of preventative thinking. The government is not known for being preventative, but rather it's more of a knee jerk reaction to travesty, and then and only then will they consider change. So what’s the cost here, do first families have to remain in poverty, or do second, how long must the cycle be allowed to continue and how many innocent children’s lives must be harmed before the government wakes up?

              All children are equal, the first should not compensate for the second, and ditto for the second and third. We should have a law that takes into account "ALL" children that an individual is legally responsible for, then factor into the equations how the CP will be responsible, instead of making assumptions that the CP are giving 100% in 100% of the cases.

              There are those out there who have done it along, zero help from the ex (I'm one of them). There are those that abuse the system and the second and maybe third families suffer for their benefit. But until "society" as a whole decides that they have had enough, that enough children have suffered, there can be a million of these forums for people to vent on, but the laws will not change.

              We are very lucky to live in a country where the populous drives law.
              Sure it tends to be a sloooowwwww drive, but if the CP that gives 100% with no help from the ex, and the second and third families all choose to make a difference a change will happen. Albeit slow, but ultimately it will change. I think the thread should be how can we make a “real” difference. How can “I” as a single person do something that will cause a shift in government thinking? The population did it once to get this reform that ultimately reduced poverty among first families, but that change caused a ripple affect, and shifted the poverty to the paying parent and subsequent families. The government has basically said that only first families matter, and that the NCP are to be exiled to a life void of human affection, void of a family to be apart of for more than every other week end. IN today’s world that’s not acceptable, no one entity should decide the life of another, and that’s what has happened with the last change in Family Law. If it was done once, can it not be done again? How can we, as in all of us, make a difference? We are all struggling in our unique situations, how can we help each other so that we are all treated fairly and equally?

              Oh, my that's a long post, sorry.

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              • #52
                Great posts FL Needs to Change and LV.

                I hope the government wakes up and realizes "times have changed" and updates family law to keep pace with reality. I have written numerous MP's only to get standard replies so far. I will keep writing and hoping someone takes notice. I don't want first families to suffer, but neither do I want second children to suffer.

                They did change the laws in Australia to include accountibility of the CP, second families are acknowledged, and CS is adjusted according to the time each parent spends with the kids. Common sense stuff really.

                I read that second wives were largely responsible for this change in Aus. so I will keep trying. I hope everyone else will too!

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                • #53
                  2nd wives

                  o.k, so, how do all of the second wives band together? If Australia (and sometimes in the U.S) can do it, so can we. I think that we are in a perfect economic time to bring this change about. Has anyone gotten anywhere? Written letters, can share some experience with me to help get equal treatment for my 'second' children? Let me know, I would like to see this change come about.

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                  • #54
                    Yes Sara!

                    Second wives really need to band together to get any changes. I have written alot of letters to politicians but have only recieved standard replies from most, saying that the guidelines are doing a good job. They definately have never been in our shoes. I think when they recive a letter from only one person it is easy to ignore it. We need numbers. I do want to get together with others in our situation. I am willing to put in the time and work. Can you contact my private email and we can discuss further?
                    Thanks!

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