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  • Help - interprovincial family law

    Hi, first time posting but have lurked for a while. I hope someone here might have some advice on what to do.

    Divorced 5 years ago out west, have 50/50% physical and legal custody of my kids. Ex decided to move to Ontario, to avoid the nasty legal battle (I had at least a 50% shot of losing) I agreed to also move to keep the custody as-is, in ON.

    I've taken a big hit financially in the move (something we both knew would happen), and need to get child support reevaluated based on our new incomes. The judge who gave the consent order recognized the lost income but wouldn't re-assess support at that point, he said we should do that in Ontario court once we moved. Ok. So we move, then I try getting our consent order recognized in Ontario so that we can then do the re-assessment. The ON judge says it will take years to recognize the consent order, so he suggests we do a new ON-based consent order re-establishing the same facts as in the old one. But the ex refuses to the new consent order because it would include a support recalculation (re-assessment would make her lose most of her support).

    I feel like this is over-complicated for nothing. How do people usually proceed when they move provinces? Do you do the very-long recognition of the old parenting order, or do you start over with a whole new parenting order? Do most people have less douchy exes and do consent orders? And, in my case, what would be my best course of action to get an enforceable parenting order and re-assessment of support, given that I have no lawyer and can't afford one?

    Any advice is appreciated. Thanks

  • #2
    If you have an uncooperative ex, then she needs to be forced to do the things that she does not want to do. That is what courts do: they force people to do things that they do not want to do. Your ex does not want to lose her support, she needs to be forced to lose it.


    Options:
    A) Suck it up and pay support until your kids are 22ish or so
    B) Go to court


    Do a cost-benefit calculation. There is a good chance that starting the application will get her to agree without you ever seeing the inside of a courtroom. You might spend $5000-$10,000 now, but there is a good chance you will save a lot more than that in the long run.


    In the event that you do go to court, it might cost about $30-40 thousand, but you would get a good chunk of that back in costs, and your ex would get a good reminder of why it is cost-effective to not be a douche.

    Comment


    • #3
      I totally agree that forcing people through court is the way to go, and am prepared to do the legal work. I'm just not sure what the easiest way to do this is. Given the circumstances is it better/easier to try (again) to get my existing order recognized, or to start over and get a new parenting order started.... keeping in mind the ex will probably put every stick in the wheel she can?

      I don't qualify for legal aid (made too much out west), and don't have even 5000 to pay for a lawyer (job-related things went really sideways after the move), this has to be done self-represented.

      Comment


      • #4
        How does the "West" order say that support is to be re-evaluated? What would you be doing on consent?

        Comment


        • #5
          The original consent order doesn't say, just that the recipient (my ex) was supposed to register with FRO after moving (she didn't) which I assume would have triggered some recalculation process. I think it was assumed she'd be motivated to start the process once here but so far she's has managed to convince the enforcement agency back home that she still lives there through various friends vouching for her, despite my many attempts to tell/show them otherwise. So they won't close the file and force her to register here, leaving the onus on me to somehow start the process without her cooperation. Hence the question about new parenting order vs. recognizing the old one.

          Thanks for the help - even typing all this out is helping organize things better in my own head.

          Comment


          • #6
            Did you sent them a copy of the new order to MEP...how old are the kids?

            You could send in the school board parent/student information sheet...this will show the address of each parent for the children.

            Comment


            • #7
              The kids are low to mid teens.

              And yes, MEP received the consent order before the move. The reps are always reasonable when I explain that it's impossible to maintain 50/50 custody while being in different provinces, but somehow nothing moves regardless. It's been over 8 months of this now. The school forms are a good idea. I had previously sent t4 information showing an Ontario address, but this might be more convincing. Thanks for the suggestion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Might want to move up and ask for a supervisor at MEP. Yearly updates are required....don t understand wny this is not being done on consent.

                You coudl get them to sent her the form to agree to the update in CS?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Registration in FRO is not mandatory if one of two parties live in Alberta. I can understand her wanting to stay with MEP as they are years ahead insofar as being online and obtaining instant up-to-date information. She would be 'hooped' however, if you moved to another Province as she would have no enforcement action.

                  I hope I am reading your post correctly. You still live in Alberta correct? You would simply file interjurisdictional Notice to change. You serve your ex as well as MEP. There is information online on how to do this. My ex lives in Alberta and takes me to court every year (sometimes 2 x year). My ex usually gets things going by filing for a stay in Alberta Court of Queen's Bench. Judges there seem to be too lazy to retrieve our very large file and invariably grant his wishes and send the motion to the Province where I live (through MEP). I get served and a notice of court hearing is set up. In my instance, as no child custody or support issues are at play, it is a written hearing. I am given 30 days to submit my response along with current financials. I have to serve my ex back in Alberta with everything. People at the courthouse are very helpful. In Alberta there is plenty of free advice/clinics you can attend. Go online and you will find the information you require.

                  I wonder how much you have researched legal Aid. Be sure that you obtain correct information.

                  Finally, I understand how daunting the forms can be. Another alternative (which I really can't believe I am recommending) is to consider hiring a paralegal to assist you with these. However, use a paralegal as a secretarial service and DO NOT RELY on them for any sort of legal advice.

                  I'd go to the family law centre and do some research. Make appointments if you can and find out information for yourself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Does she provide you with income tax forms or anything like that with her address? Use those and the school forms. Ask for a supervisor at MEP and also ask them what process you would need to follow to get the cs collection halted while you are going to court.

                    FRO means nothing at this point. She may file with FRO if you get cs stopped with MEP which then means you would have crossed the hurdle of getting your agreement recognized in Ontario court.

                    The first thing is to get the agreement/order recognized here in Ontario. Is there a FLIC centre at your local courthouse? Pop in there to find out what you need to do. Once the order is recognized here its a simple motion to change.

                    Of note: keep all your documentation where you asked for an update to cs. If you have been requesting and she is refusing or ignoring then you can possibly go back and recalculate your overpayment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Perhaps I misread, but I thought the issue here is that he is looking to lower child support? This is not a simple "file with local enforcement agency" issue. His income took a hit when he moved (or will move) to Ontario. The judge out west recognized this and said that there would be a recalculation. His ex is not too interested in recalculating though...

                      ...or I could have misread it terribly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If he hadn’t moved it would be easy. Their order was out west but now they are in Ontario.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IF they are both living in ON then he files in ON.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks all. To clarify a few points, and summarize my understanding of what you've all said:

                            -Yes we both now live in Ontario.

                            -Yes I want to reduce CS, but I also want my custody and access schedule recognized and enforceable in this province (this was really hard to get, and I don't want her to realize she can start withholding access because we have no enforceable order in place).

                            -Yes MEP shouldn't have jurisdiction because we're both out of province, and I've provided proof of address for the ex to MEP in a few different formats (photocopy of kids health cards in Ontario, her address as listed on her T4). My understanding is that she had tried to provide MEP an address in-province, they didn't bother to ask for proof, and now that I'm contesting that fact they are looking into it. Very very slowly, it seems. So on that front we are stalled for now.

                            -I assume that once MEP closes the file she will be more motivated to register our order in Ontario. But that will require the recalculation she's avoiding, hence (i assume) the lie to MEP.


                            All that said, do you think I should just wait for the MEP file to close? How long does that usually take? I thought it would be a matter of a few weeks at most, but its been a few months already. Also, what happens after it closes? I assume she'd be forced to either start the process for a new parenting order or get the old one recognized (same options as I faced) - is there a risk to letting her choose? Is there a way to force her to get the old one recognized vs. starting over (and possibly re-fighting the custody battle again)?

                            Thanks again.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Custody orders are next to impossible to enforce when it comes to making it happen. There are a lot of people on this forum who have had their time denied. The best advice for you is to demand your time and show up to get the kids.

                              I would still hound mep on a regular basis. Make sure its escalated to a supervisor too. The sooner they close the file the sooner you can get moving.

                              When it closes she will then have to go to you to get cs or file it with FRO. If she goes through fro then you will have to file a motion to change to update it.

                              Comment

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