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  • Does Anyone have experience with Forensic Accountants?

    When is a forensic accountant necessary?

    Here's the issue- my ex and I separated 8 months ago. It took until July for him to be ready to file his financial statement- and he still gave it to my (ex) counsel incomplete- he didn't include a bunch of proof or evidence of figures included in his financial statement, nor his 2017 taxes or NOA.

    Additionally- it's a long story- but he managed to save way more into his RRSPs than should have been possible if he was actually contributing to our savings accounts as he should have. It smacks of him moving money into RRSPs to create contingent tax liabilities within the last year. His sister and him are both accountants. They would know to do this.

    Add to that- that in November 2017- he started hiding his finances in his office by installing a lock on the door.

    Add to that - I received mail last week that was misdirected to me by Canada Post from our house- which stated "Your Mutual Fund Performance Report" by CIBC. There is no CIBC mutual funds listed on his financial disclosure statement. I gave him the mail (unopened- but I took a picture of it- and noted the account number on the address windowpane)- and asked him about it- he said it was our daughter's RESP. But her RESP is with TD and in her name...wouldn't it be addressed to her, not him?

    Anyhow- I sent this all off to my lawyer who has ROI'd statements from all his accounts from Nov 2017 to present, in addition to all of the missing stuff from his financial disclosure.

    But is my lawyer the best person to do it? What exactly does a forensic accountant do?

    All things adding up seems to point towards him hiding or moving money. But how do I find this out? If the CIBC mail hadn't come to me- I wouldn't even known about it. It's stressful thinking that I may never actually know how much money he's moved around.

  • #2
    Oh- and to give some context. we're talking about equalization in the range of 40-60K, so not insignificant- but not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Comment


    • #3
      Everything you here on this board is a mix of legal, personal-legal, and personal opinion.

      This most likely leans towards the latter of the three (though after years of being engaged in the process, it is fairly well informed), and I will warn you, it is a cold statement:

      There is a very good chance it is all for not.

      Financial statements are valid for the thirty days prior to any given process. That means that you could spend a ton of effort, energy and EMOTION (which translates right back into the first two), to identify an oddity which OP might well be able to rectify with a simple scratch and re-write on the next filing.

      Yes, it could go to character....or it could go to oversight. If we are not talking about a huge variation in support etc, the court will pay it little attention.

      Your energy, now (in my very humble opinion) is probably best focused on for more pressing matters. You can always make simple notes about unopened envelopes and the potential of hidden accounts for future reference (the financial form 13 have this nasty tendency of sticking around on file :-) )
      Last edited by Trix; 10-01-2018, 09:26 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I’ve been living your nightmare for 2.5 years. My husband is a lawyer, owns his own practice, planned his “escape” from our marriage anywhere from 8-12 months in advance. Even bought a house to move into (without me knowing) once he left.

        My Wasband also neglected to disclose his financial information, not even his tax returns, until I was 10’s of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get him to do so. Once he did, he buried my lawyer in paperwork and we did hire a forensic accountant. She’s a real Spitfire too. Once she started asking my Wasband for more and more information, all of a sudden he started cooperating somewhat. We still haven’t received everything the accountant needs to analyze his income fully (just yesterday we gave him 30 days) and it’s been 31 months since we separated.

        My equalization sounds like it will be more than yours, but you should have a discussion with your lawyer about hiring one. If you want a referral, pm me.

        PS. An envelope from Revenue Canada came to the house after he left and you bet your bottom dollar I steamed it open, copied it, and through it back in the mail! It’s a good thing I did too!

        I

        Comment


        • #5
          Is your husband self-employed? He might be well within standard guidelines to provide NOAs/tax returns.

          If he is, now might be a very good time to assess the lawyer you currently have retained. Often family lawyers do not have any experience with business finances. This can cost you lots of money due to wasted/futile attempts in court to obtain full financial disclosure. Important that wording on Orders is quite specific. If your lawyer has no experience with this then time to move on.

          Prior to spending money on forensic accountant (they typically start at 650.00/hr) find the right lawyer and request a 'game plan/strategy' from the lawyer. It's your money, up to you to make sure you spend it wisely and effectively. Too many useless appearances in court won't bode well for you in the long-term. Also keep in mind that accountant (forensic or regular guy/gal) will require specific information which you may have to obtain via court Order. Some people just do not want to give up information easily, particularly if they have an expensive lawyer who makes money keeping the two of you fighting. (Always look at the big picture with this in mind).

          My ex was particularly difficult. After many court appearances asking nicely for him to disclose things, we had to get court Orders compelling him to. Even then he continued to be difficult. This is where having super high income imputed is a valuable tool... in place until they provide full disclosure.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Karma2016 View Post
            I’ve been living your nightmare for 2.5 years. My husband is a lawyer, owns his own practice, planned his “escape” from our marriage anywhere from 8-12 months in advance. Even bought a house to move into (without me knowing) once he left.

            My Wasband also neglected to disclose his financial information, not even his tax returns, until I was 10’s of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get him to do so. Once he did, he buried my lawyer in paperwork and we did hire a forensic accountant. She’s a real Spitfire too. Once she started asking my Wasband for more and more information, all of a sudden he started cooperating somewhat. We still haven’t received everything the accountant needs to analyze his income fully (just yesterday we gave him 30 days) and it’s been 31 months since we separated.

            My equalization sounds like it will be more than yours, but you should have a discussion with your lawyer about hiring one. If you want a referral, pm me.

            PS. An envelope from Revenue Canada came to the house after he left and you bet your bottom dollar I steamed it open, copied it, and through it back in the mail! It’s a good thing I did too!

            I
            I would ask the admin to delete that one part. You just admitted to committing a crime and can be charged. You cannot open mail that isn't addressed to you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
              I would ask the admin to delete that one part. You just admitted to committing a crime and can be charged. You cannot open mail that isn't addressed to you.

              Unless the police suddenly have oodles of time, and unless they can track Karma to a specific individual, and prove that she wrote that message, and prove that she actually opened that letter... I think she's pretty safe.


              That said, CRA messages can be grabbed through court processes. No need to be sneaky. Better mail to open is stuff that cannot be grabbed through a court process, like attorney correspondence.


              On the flip side, if you are getting divorced, best to assume that all your mail is getting opened by your adversary, and act accordingly . I got a PO box during my divorce for precisely that reason. No laws were going to stop my ex from opening anything.

              Comment


              • #8
                It was 2.5 years ago. The mail came to my house. My Wasband and I have the same initials and honestly I thought it was addressed to me at first. I opened it and glad I did. If the internet cops want to charge me so be it. That’s the least of my problems right now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Karma2016 View Post
                  It was 2.5 years ago. The mail came to my house. My Wasband and I have the same initials and honestly I thought it was addressed to me at first. I opened it and glad I did. If the internet cops want to charge me so be it. That’s the least of my problems right now.
                  That goes against what you said before. If you thought it was truly yours then you would not have steamed it open.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Initially I did think it was mine. Realized it wasn’t. Opened it anyway. It wasn’t uncommon for me to open his mail and vice versa.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Karma, we all know it was deliberate. Your initial wording was quite clear to that effect.

                      Originally posted by Karma, in a moment of candour
                      you bet your bottom dollar I steamed it open

                      SoS thinks your actions were evil or illegal, I think they were ok. We may differ on that, but there is not a chance I do not believe that you knew exactly what you were doing.

                      If you ever go to trial, you may want to watch out for inadvertently making two contradictory statements. Judges call that an internal inconsistency, and they use those to discredit your entire testimony.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Trial for what? Whose going to trial?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nobody silly, it was a statement that should you ever decide to look to the courts for assistance in the future, you should watch out for internal inconsistencies in your statements.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arabian View Post
                            Is your husband self-employed? He might be well within standard guidelines to provide NOAs/tax returns.

                            If he is, now might be a very good time to assess the lawyer you currently have retained. Often family lawyers do not have any experience with business finances. This can cost you lots of money due to wasted/futile attempts in court to obtain full financial disclosure. Important that wording on Orders is quite specific. If your lawyer has no experience with this then time to move on.

                            Prior to spending money on forensic accountant (they typically start at 650.00/hr) find the right lawyer and request a 'game plan/strategy' from the lawyer. It's your money, up to you to make sure you spend it wisely and effectively. Too many useless appearances in court won't bode well for you in the long-term. Also keep in mind that accountant (forensic or regular guy/gal) will require specific information which you may have to obtain via court Order. Some people just do not want to give up information easily, particularly if they have an expensive lawyer who makes money keeping the two of you fighting. (Always look at the big picture with this in mind).

                            My ex was particularly difficult. After many court appearances asking nicely for him to disclose things, we had to get court Orders compelling him to. Even then he continued to be difficult. This is where having super high income imputed is a valuable tool... in place until they provide full disclosure.
                            Thanks for the input-and yeah, this is why I fired my old lawyer and got the one I have now. He is knowledgeable about divorce finances. And we haven't gone back to court yet for disclosure. He has requested the the information via an ROI to opposing counsel.

                            He is proceeding via a post separation adjustment chart. We have a game plan. Tie up proceeds of sale of house, then bring motion for equalization. We may bring a motion for child support soon- depending on how quickly the house is sold. Right now ex is paying my portion of the carrying costs of the home to offset child support. But this is not a formalized arrangement.

                            What we're actually waiting for is the OCL to finish their assessment and try the marry the two processes up via mediation. We'll see.

                            My daughter is safe. She spends time with her dad on the regular. And I'm surviving financially without help for now.

                            And yes- my ex is difficult (understatement). But he is who he is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Child support is right of the child and this probably should have been filed for upon separation. There is much legal precedent about this.

                              Comment

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