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  • #31
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    If no one is going to be able to afford the house then it would be logical to put it on the market.
    Well, that was my theory too.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    Sounds like your ex is very young and naive - an easy assumption based on what you have outlined. Since you have moved out and have now proven you have another place you can stay temporarily, your chances of getting interim possess on the matrimonial home are pretty much zero. If anything, she very well might try to make that move. If she has the children living with her then she will likely succeed.
    I'm 45 and she is 39, but yes she is naive in many ways about financial matters. I did not want the home because I knew I could not afford it. It took her over a week to realize the same.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    Posters on this forum will tell you from experience that everything starts off quite friendly. After your stbx meets up with her friends, lawyers, relatives the atmosphere changes quickly.
    Friendly isn't the word I would use at all. More like focusing on making sure the kids are still loved, valued and cared for. They are not property to be fought over. I have no worries that they will be cared for properly; that is one thing I will not take away from my stbx, is that she is a good mother to them.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    None of us going through divorces like the fact that our lifestyles will change drastically. It is a reality unless you are extremely wealthy.
    I realized that immediately. As an only child that has been so well cared for over her life, it is coming as a shock to her.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    You mentioned that this whole situation came as a surprise to you. Do you feel there is any possibility for reconciliation? Are the current problems merely financial or is there someone else in the picture?
    She has been brutally and ruthlessly honest. When asked if this was a trial separation, I was flatly told NO, it is done for good. Similarly, there is nobody else in the picture. She was unhappy and just didn't love me anymore, case closed.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    Financial problems can be resolved with financial counselling. Too often young people get in over their heads financially at the start of their marriage.
    I would agree with that. While we have had problems financially, I thought things were improving. But perhaps because I started to say no to her expectations, maybe I triggered this split in some way. Not that it matters anymore.

    Comment


    • #32
      Sounds like you have a good grasp of the situation. I'd recommend getting the financial matters dealt with asap. Often people on this forum has some excellent advice about how to protect yourself (immediately close joint credit cards etc.). In order not to throw her into the arms of a sleazy attorney be cautious how you do everything. Some people keep a joint account for bill payment, others say not to do that. You can read some previous posts on that subject. I believe it is important to establish an official separation date.

      I suspect that once a decision is reached about disposing of the house you can't afford, hopefully some financial stress relief will follow. Discuss with her, if possible at this time, about getting the house listed and sold. Any and all proceeds to be held in lawyer's trust account. You can save a tidy bundle if you sell the place yourself. Ask her to hold off her bankruptcy intentions until after the home is sold and most of the assets are divided. The more you can do things without involving outsiders the better and cheaper. You will have years ahead to spend tens of thousands of dollars arguing over child custody/support issues. Remind her that child/spousal support doesn't get reduced or eliminated by bankruptcy. What is affected by bankruptcy (which no one will tell you) is that if you are collecting spousal through FRO/MEP bankruptcy does limit the amount that can be collected.

      Have you done any preliminary calculations with regards to child/spousal support? This might be a real eye-opener to both of you. She will immediately see the advantages to having the kids with her for the majority of the time and will likely formulate her plans accordingly. No one likes to admit it, particularly on this forum, but child custody is often played out with the primary concern being money, certainly not the best interests of the children.

      While the two of you are making decision about home you both should be preparing and exchanging budgets. This will give you a clear idea of where she is at in her expectations. Depending upon the roles you played in your marriage (did one person pay the bills), this could be a rude awakening for her. Many people (not just women) have really no comprehension on how much it costs to run a home. You will both be running your own homes and you should try to figure out a way that everything is equitable. If you don't do this a judge will.

      Finally, be prepared to take any and all money you have left from the sale of the home to pay for lawyers. Many lawyers will look at the equity in your home and plan their case around it. Yes it is crass but it is the truth. By getting the home dispersed with and then getting your lawyers involved you will likely save alot of money.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        Sounds like you have a good grasp of the situation. I'd recommend getting the financial matters dealt with asap.
        I try to be realistic, even if I may not like what the reality is.

        In regards to the financial matters, it would seem that she must have already filed the paperwork for bankruptcy. I still have access to our joint account online and there are two Stop Payments processed, presumably for the mortgages.

        Once the paperwork has been signed, isn't it too late to annul or stop the bankruptcy process? From my reading it seems that the only way to do this is if it can be shown that it shouldn't have been filed .......and the only way to do this now would be if the student loans (which are the only real debt) won't be discharged.

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        • #34
          Bankruptcy trustees are crooks. You can show that the bankrupt lies, cheats and goes into bankruptcy fraudulently and they DO NOTHING. You can try writing a letter to the OSB but unless you live somewhere other than Ontario I don't think those guys will do very much. It's a very, very corrupt dirty little secret of the government. Few people object to bankruptcies so they really do nothing. These trustees are con artists. They don't belong to a professional association that has the power to hold their members accountable (like CAs, doctors, lawyers). The government watchdog, The Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy, are a bunch of government lackeys. (That's my vent on that subject).

          Have you seen an actual copy of her bankruptcy filing? Perhaps she will supply you a copy?

          Your lawyer can get an interim order regarding the matrimonial home. One person should not be able to effect the home going into foreclosure. You get an amount of arrears from the mortgage company, including penalty, and have an order for her to pay her portion of the arrears and continue paying until such time as the home is sold. In the same order you can state the date the house is to be put on the market, etc. Is anyone living in the home or have the two of you essentially walked away from it?

          The two stop-payments - did you know about these or is this something that has happened since you separated? How long have you been separated? A few weeks... months?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Have you seen an actual copy of her bankruptcy filing? Perhaps she will supply you a copy?
            Not yet; it would probably have been done in the last 1 - 2 days. As we have not gone through the equalization process, it is possible that I could be a creditor but she probably never thought of that and I doubt the trustee asked.

            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Your lawyer can get an interim order regarding the matrimonial home. One person should not be able to effect the home going into foreclosure. You get an amount of arrears from the mortgage company, including penalty, and have an order for her to pay her portion of the arrears and continue paying until such time as the home is sold. In the same order you can state the date the house is to be put on the market, etc. Is anyone living in the home or have the two of you essentially walked away from it?
            At the moment the mortgages and insurance are current with no arrears, which is why she said the trustee advised her to stop paying them immediately as it will take 2 - 3 months before anything happens, giving her time to move out. There are some utility arrears. Currently she is there with the kids, but is aiming to move out ASAP. I'm a little annoyed that she told me "she" is giving up the house and bankruptcy will eliminate the mortgages for her. A sale would have accomplished the same thing.

            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            The two stop-payments - did you know about these or is this something that has happened since you separated? How long have you been separated? A few weeks... months?
            The two stop payments just happened, or at least showed up in the account, today, and I was unaware that they would be implemented. As far as I am concerned, we have been separated since 8:46 pm March 11 which is when I was given the news. Such life altering moments are not hard to forget.

            Comment


            • #36
              I'd move on the interim order. Check with your lawyer. My ex pulled the same sort of stunt. We got an interim order for him to continue to pay mortgage payments, utilities, etc. I had to get orders to get him to everything, certainly nothing voluntary on his part which came back to haunt him later.

              Unless you want the house to go into foreclosure you have some leverage here.

              So she's going bankrupt just to get rid of student loans? (which won't work) Wow she has a real humdinger of a trustee (told you they are idiots).

              Comment


              • #37
                Trustees are stupid. Always, always remember that. These people are the same intelligence as those people they hire off the street to work at H & R Block. They just wear nice suits and have impressive offices. Is your ex fucking stupid? My ex is. I just never knew how stupid until this started happening. I feel for you.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dazed_and_confused View Post
                  The two stop payments just happened, or at least showed up in the account, today, and I was unaware that they would be implemented. As far as I am concerned, we have been separated since 8:46 pm March 11 which is when I was given the news. Such life altering moments are not hard to forget.
                  I know zero about bankruptcy, but my personal view is that it is irresponsible and should be avoided at all costs.

                  Is your bank account still joint? Close it ASAP! Close all the joint stuff immediately! And just because she wants to declare bankruptcy, you don't have to let it affect your credit rating any more than you have to by letting the mortgage slide. If your name is on the mortgage, keep paying. Go to the bank and open your own bank account and keep paying the mortgage from it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    Unless you want the house to go into foreclosure you have some leverage here.
                    I want it sold; ideally if it covers all costs associated with that, I'm happy. If there is anything leftover afterwards, I'm very happy.

                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    So she's going bankrupt just to get rid of student loans? (which won't work)
                    Essentially, that is exactly what she is doing. How that will make it better in the long run is beyond me. Just to make me stand back and say WTF? she has stated that she is keeping the utilities in arrears out of the process so that she will be able to get them again easily ..........and wants to know when I can pay my share! As far as I'm concerned, I have no choice but to argue that this is bad faith and that she has reset the 7 year clock. Using money to fund part-time university studies (even though distance education) and paying little on student loans until the imagined 7 year mark hits so you can declare bankruptcy to erase them is wrong; doubly so when it happens just after separation and wipes out a possible equalization payment.

                    What I think of her trustee wouldn't be fit to print, or speak in polite company.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                      Is your bank account still joint? Close it ASAP! Close all the joint stuff immediately! And just because she wants to declare bankruptcy, you don't have to let it affect your credit rating any more than you have to by letting the mortgage slide. If your name is on the mortgage, keep paying. Go to the bank and open your own bank account and keep paying the mortgage from it.
                      I left the joint account open as there were a number of pre-authorized payments that came out of it and I did not wish to cause her unnecessary problems. I changed my payroll deposit and set up my own account immediately. There are no other joint accounts. As far as my credit rating, it already sucks but I have been working to rebuild it. As far as paying the mortgage myself, I simply cannot afford it, at least as long as want to eat that is.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        What your significant other (stbx) has done is really, really shitty and underhanded.

                        Think about yourself and the kids. She obviously gave no thought as to how this would impact you. It is reckless, deliberate and to my way of thinking, inexcusable.

                        Total low-blow. Don't cut her any breaks. She has essentially thrown you under the bus. Tell her you like to get kissed before you get f*cked :s

                        I am not shocked at all that the trustee advised her to stop making mortgage payments. He/She should be reported. It won't do much good but at least there will be a record of your complaint.
                        Last edited by hadenough; 03-23-2013, 10:20 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          You can search bankruptcy cases/decisions on CanLII

                          Send a complaint to these folks: http://www.cairp.ca/home/index.php

                          And..

                          The Office of The Superintendent of Bankruptcy.
                          Last edited by hadenough; 03-23-2013, 10:25 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            14 yr bankruptcy notation on one's credit rating just to wipe out some student loans? Not very bright. Obvious waste of education on her. Very stupid woman.

                            Consider yourself fortunate that she didn't rack up any larger debts.

                            Hadenough is correct - don't cut her any breaks. Look out for yourself now.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Very stupid woman.
                              I'm not feeling too smart right now; I married her.

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Hadenough is correct - don't cut her any breaks. Look out for yourself now.
                              I realize I have little choice if I want to have any kind of meaningful life. I can already hear the whining and blaming about how my actions will make it difficult for the kids.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                You can file a notice of opposition to her bankruptcy. Possibly even a proof of claim. For starters, you can oppose on the grounds that she did not opt for a more viable solution: a CONSUMER PROPOSAL. Bankruptcy ought to be a LAST RESORT and is intended for the "honest but unfortunate debtor."

                                You may file an opposition with HER trustee and if deemed you are a proven creditor, then a Proof of Claim as well.

                                Don't roll over on this. That's what it sounds like she and her scumbag trustee are counting on.

                                Comment

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