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  • Legal vs Moral responsibilty

    Hi, Never done anything like this before... never been in this situation before either!!

    Six years ago he moved in with me in my home. We have no joint assets bank accounts other than a boat in both of our names for insurance purposes but I paid for. He was a productive healthy individual and we have known eah other for over 30 years. His personality started changing three years into the relationship. Long story short, he has been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder along with frontal brain damage. The verbal and physical abuse has been ongoing. The Dr suggested that involving the police would not be beneficial for him and I learned how to aviod it until he passed out. The hallucinations and just plain bizzare behavior has been outrageous. The unfortunate part is because of the brain damage he has NO MEMORY of his behavoir at all. All of this has been documented and letters were sent to the Dr's over the past 18 months as each of his behaviors worsened. Of course he cannot work. His CPP has been slow in comming (1 year). Letters have been sent by Doctors and to my local MP for assistance regarding this. I have been supporting him financially .
    I have endured a tremendous amount of damage to my mind & emotions. I am no longer capable or qualified to care for him. I went to see a lawyer. He wrote him a letter to vacate in 30 days. telling him he has no right to property. Also I recently found out that he has been driving the cars , both im my company name, without a drivers licence.(he let it expire 4 years ago) The laywer included in the letter that if he drove the cars anymore that this would be considered theft and the authorities would be contacted.
    It is not his fault that he is ill, not is it mine. I have spent hours filling out housing subsidy and mental health service applications to get him a place to live. He is not ill enough for the hospital YET! I am in no position financially to pay for his seperate living and expenses. I do believe I have done everything I can to try and help him. His family are afraid I will be dropping him off at their doorstep and are becoming quite agressive with me. They have agreed to give him some financial assistance as will I. He is frightend and not able to care for himself in areas of medications and meals. I NEED MY LIFE BACK.
    My questions are; If the govt agencies have not responded in the next 30 days and I drop him off at a family member what recourse does he have?

    How do I get a court order?

    The boat is for sale, when it is sold I told him he could have the proceeds net of the expenses for the past three years, is this okay?

    Currently he is penniless and about to become homeless.




    I certainly can reconcile this in my head and am in need of healing, the trouble is the reconcilliation in my heart!


    I welcome any insight to these circumstances. Thank you

    Karen

  • #2
    A family court order is not as "legally" powerful as a criminal order, IE restraining order.
    You need to face the fact that one of the family members may issue a claim for spousal support given the duration of the relationship and that he is no longer able to be self supportive.

    You have one thing on your side, IE nothing is joint as far as assets splitting.
    Therefore all your possessions will remain yours.

    I would be leery of the SS issue though.
    See a family lawyer about this, and get a restraining order against the entire immediate family. They seem to think he is solely your responsibility when that couldn’t be farther from the truth. You are obviously not qualified to give him the care he needs, and his family needs to understand that he “IS” their responsibility. He needs professional help before he seriously hurts someone.

    You are not married; therefore you have no obligation to continue supporting him, save the possible SS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Similar situation

      Kowens I'm in a similar situation with someone who suffers fm major depressive disorders. Its taken a toll on my health and finances over the years. He's on medical leave right now, has no assets, a bunch of credit bills that he ran up, doesn't contribute financially.

      House in my name and all assets for the last 4 yrs. We've been "officially" common law for 5, but were living together "as friends" before.

      I make a good salary and he's not working right now. Any money he made in past was never towards the house, only to his own bills, plus he owes me thousands. As I did post a comment a while back and a response I got is that courts "would not' take into consideration any debts he owed me.

      FL -- question is, are they still not entitled to Spousal Support? I have a feeling Kowens that even if you get him to leave, that you could be liable for SS for awhile depending on your salary and length of relationship.

      The advise I got from Upper Canada Law Society referral (Ont) is that he "could" apply for spousal support.

      If we agree on a lump sum payment, and this is notarized at the bank, I dont' want him coming back a few months when he's out of money asking for more support. Also, if he's given a lump sum (for new furniture etc) in lieu of spousal support, then I'm not obligated for both right later on?

      Sorry, this email thread wasn't originally about my situation but I had to jump in because I'm in a similar situation and this has already cost me dearly emotionally, financially etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Kowens -- also

        Also Kowens, please see a counsellor on this for your own sanity...so that you realize that its not your fault, you've given everything you could. I'm in the same boat and its been difficult. Your partner will also try to keep the situation the same, make empty promises, claims the illness is the problem ..."how can you leave me if I'm sick...." etc etc. Its hard to deal with and I'm right there with you !

        Comment


        • #5
          SS may be awarded for both situations.
          But there are cases where a lump sum in lieu of monthly payments have been allowed, with clear instruction that neither party is to return the matter to court.

          I think the reason why courts ignore the family debt is because it is very hard to prove intent to pay back. IE if there was a written agreement that stated that these moneys were for the purpose of loans and that they were intended to be repaid, then it might get looked at by the courts. Too often family would swear on a legal document to lending money to reduce the assets of an individual, and the courts could not discern the real loans and the made up ones. Does this make sense?


          Make sure any agreement is in writting & sworn and preferably filed with the courts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Spousal Support question

            FL thanks for your reply
            Question on SS. Although we were living together, we filed separate tax claims as single, for various reasons (instability of relationship). Then we started filing a common law 4 yrs ago.

            I would think then that spousal support formula would be based on the 4 yrs only?

            Also, do they look at the difference in salaries for each year...or only the current difference in salaries in current calendar / tax year.

            Also, I can prove the amounts he owes, this is due to irresponsible behaviour, would courts not look at his bank records to show he has not made an effort to help himself be self sufficient?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BugsRUs
              FL thanks for your reply
              Question on SS. Although we were living together, we filed separate tax claims as single, for various reasons (instability of relationship). Then we started filing a common law 4 yrs ago.
              Generally that date of validation is when the couple began living as husband and wife, IE intimately. However, this can easily be seen as a he said she said issue, and the courts may use the tax return dates, but one never knows how the courts will rule on any given topic. We can only speculate based on any past cases of similar issues.

              Originally posted by BugsRUs
              Also, do they look at the difference in salaries for each year...or only the current difference in salaries in current calendar / tax year.
              They will likely use the last 3 years notice’s of assessment and take an average income if the amount fluctuates significantly.

              Originally posted by BugsRUs
              Also, I can prove the amounts he owes, this is due to irresponsible behaviour, would courts not look at his bank records to show he has not made an effort to help himself be self sufficient?
              I'm thinking that the accounts would not show neglect to financial responsibility.
              I'm not sure how they would show his efforts with respect to becoming self supportive.
              I'll be the devil's advocate.
              If he tried to gain reasonable employment and failed that would not be reflected in his bank accounts, in fact they would have little to no activity.

              You have a huge onus to prove that he indeed is not self support by intention.
              If he is entitled to social assistance, and has not applied then that could be an issue as well.
              If he has not applied for assistant and is looking to you for support, then a court may request that he apply for assistance and set aside the issue until then or order an interim amount until he has assistance.

              Hope this helps.
              FL

              Comment


              • #8
                One more question

                FL your replies are helpful. But you are right it would come down to a he said / she said. He'll turn around and say he took cash advances because he was "ill..."

                Anyway, my question is...they are the ones who have to apply for SS right? They go to lawyer, have to prove salary differences etc? Then what, I'd get approached, have to prove my salary, get my own lawyer or mediator etc?

                He does get social assistance right now due to medical leave.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Unlike CS, SS must be applied for and the party has to prove "need" and you would counter with "means".

                  There is no need for you to worry yourself unnecessarily.
                  Step back and breathe. If they want SS they have to file for it, then you would be notified if you do not have a lawyer retained on record.

                  And that is when you start your process of showing your side.
                  Has he applied for government assistance since he (his family) feels his illness is keeping him from gainful employment?

                  I would think a family so hell bent on getting him financial support would have gone this route to have a doctor issue documents to support that he cannot hold a job and is deserving of financial assistance.
                  This issue would be something I would lean on in the even this went to court.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Response to FL

                    FL you are right, since he has to prove he needs it, no need to worry myself unnecessarily. But like Kowens, its affecting now my emotional health.

                    He has not been under his family's financial support for yrs. He's been working on & off, just recently on medical leave due to a breakdown. Although I offered to oversee his finances, he refused, so I am no longer liable for any of his own debts. I think my concern is, the longer he stays at my house, the possibility of having to pay support increases.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kowens is alive and in the process of healing and getting her life back. Great advise. Went to lawyer, best 500.00 I ever spent. Issued letter to vacate. I am self employed, 3 years notice of assesment average is negligable. He is now living on our boat that is for sale. When it sells, he will receive the proceeds net of expenses for the past three years. He is not coping well, has no friends. I Have spent copious hours filling out government forms and he is on every LTC and subsidized housing list at priority status. BIG DEAL , it is still over a 1 year wait. His Mother is helping him financially Father who is VERY well off told him to go live in a homeless shelter. Anyway, Mom agrees to put her name on a 1 year lease and when his benifits come in will agree to pay any shortfall. Between the car Insurance his cell phoine groceries ect. I am contributing 400.00 per month for now. Lawyer suggested that SS only goes on for a short time up to a year. I am doing this out of moral obligation as opposed to legal. This is a tough ride however the fog is lifting. To all of yo who have shared your words of wisdom and encouragement. THANK YOU, I am most GRATEFUL and appreciative.

                      Comment

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