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The list of expenses I submitted in my financial disclosure was minimal, but fair (IMO), but I had a really tough time coming up with amounts. I wondered what it's based on.. Should I be listing approximate amounts based on how we lived when we were together (less my ex, of course), the approximate amounts we now were trying to live on, or the approximate amounts I felt we could get by on successfully? By 'successfully', I mean what it takes to live a meager, but do-able, existence. My lawyer was very vague in his instruction on how and what to list, but did tell me he saw a case where someone listed $100 per month for lotto tickets, and it really angered the judge.
In the end, I used all the utility bills from the previous year and averaged them over 12 months to determine an amount for them. Right or wrong, I felt my internet cost was a necessity, as I really needed it for legal research and e-mail between my lawyer and I, and frankly, with two little kids, it's the only way I've found and maintained friendships. Groceries, prescriptions, fuel.. they were relatively easy with looking at previous months' purchases, too.
Determining rent/mortgage was difficult because my ex and I are in dispute over the house; I live in it with the kids, I provided the down-payment from the sale of the house I was renting to own from my father, but we put the house in his name only because I had bad credit from large student loans. While he's acknowledged many times that the house is mine, he's insisted on keeping it in his name as a means to force me to comply with his demands about the kids, so he's been responsible for the payments and taxes, although he hasn't been paying them regularily. My lawyer told me to list the amount of the mortgage payment and the property taxes in my expenses on the basis that a) I feel the home should be signed over to me and will therefore take over responsibility when and if it is, and b) I couldn't rent any cheaper than the payment + tax amount. My ex also listed the mortgage payment in his expense list, which seems reasonable, since he is the one supposedly paying it, but is it right that we both list the same expense, when only he is paying it?
In the entertainment/recreation category, I was really stumped. Since the separation, the kids and I have been living a very meager existence, particularily compared to what we as a family were living.. I ended up putting down about $25 for trips to McD's, etc, and the amount we pay for cable TV. Clothing was another tough one.. at the time, I still had lots of hand-me-downs for the twins, but since then, they've gotten to that age where kiddos wear out their clothes really fast, and hand-me-downs are scarce. For myself, I hadn't bought anything new for myself except underwear and socks for over two years, so I was in desperate need of pants, shirts, and a new pair of shoes. In the end, I put down about $100 per month for me and the twins combined, and I don't know whether that was reasonable or not.. the twins were outgrowing their shoes about every 2 months then, and they each take a 'wide' size, so shoes alone ran about $50 when we replaced them. Winter boots were pushing $80. Snowsuits.. about $35 each, etc. For me, I figured approximately $30 per month wasn't too unreasonable, considering a bra is about $25 and a package of 3 underwear runs about $10, 4 pairs of socks about $10.
All in all, the expenses for me and the kids came out to about $2300 per month, with the only 'non-necessary' being a $100 contribution to a mutual fund my Dad helped me set up for retirement, and the entertainment/recreation amount, which was about $75 per month.
Then I saw my ex's expense list. OUTRAGEOUS! Ridiculous! He's listed entertainment, recreation and vacation as three separate expenses that total $430 per month, gifts at $50, $165 for banking/accounting/legal costs? His lawyer alone should be more than $165 per month, and my lawyer told me you don't include legal fees, as they are "voluntary expenses", so banking and accounting is apparently worth $165 in his world? Another $200 for meals outside the home, and $475 for groceries?! Ok, he works away from home, but refuses to establish a home.. he lives in his trailer that he takes to work, and stays at either his parents' or friends' homes, or stays in his trailer when he's not working. He's even listed $50 per month for newspapers? In the end, he's listing his monthly expenses at just about $6000 per month. Does this not seem absolutely outrageous, when mortgage and property taxes combined come to less than $800, and he pays no utilities? Oh yeah, he's listed his cell phone expense at $400 per month...
So, what kind of expense lists are going on out there? For those of you who've prepared them, have you had the same concerns I have? Did your lawyer direct you to a 'sample' or 'typical' list? Have any of you experienced or heard of a judge just throwing out a list of expenses for being obviously unreasonable?
In the end, I used all the utility bills from the previous year and averaged them over 12 months to determine an amount for them. Right or wrong, I felt my internet cost was a necessity, as I really needed it for legal research and e-mail between my lawyer and I, and frankly, with two little kids, it's the only way I've found and maintained friendships. Groceries, prescriptions, fuel.. they were relatively easy with looking at previous months' purchases, too.
Determining rent/mortgage was difficult because my ex and I are in dispute over the house; I live in it with the kids, I provided the down-payment from the sale of the house I was renting to own from my father, but we put the house in his name only because I had bad credit from large student loans. While he's acknowledged many times that the house is mine, he's insisted on keeping it in his name as a means to force me to comply with his demands about the kids, so he's been responsible for the payments and taxes, although he hasn't been paying them regularily. My lawyer told me to list the amount of the mortgage payment and the property taxes in my expenses on the basis that a) I feel the home should be signed over to me and will therefore take over responsibility when and if it is, and b) I couldn't rent any cheaper than the payment + tax amount. My ex also listed the mortgage payment in his expense list, which seems reasonable, since he is the one supposedly paying it, but is it right that we both list the same expense, when only he is paying it?
In the entertainment/recreation category, I was really stumped. Since the separation, the kids and I have been living a very meager existence, particularily compared to what we as a family were living.. I ended up putting down about $25 for trips to McD's, etc, and the amount we pay for cable TV. Clothing was another tough one.. at the time, I still had lots of hand-me-downs for the twins, but since then, they've gotten to that age where kiddos wear out their clothes really fast, and hand-me-downs are scarce. For myself, I hadn't bought anything new for myself except underwear and socks for over two years, so I was in desperate need of pants, shirts, and a new pair of shoes. In the end, I put down about $100 per month for me and the twins combined, and I don't know whether that was reasonable or not.. the twins were outgrowing their shoes about every 2 months then, and they each take a 'wide' size, so shoes alone ran about $50 when we replaced them. Winter boots were pushing $80. Snowsuits.. about $35 each, etc. For me, I figured approximately $30 per month wasn't too unreasonable, considering a bra is about $25 and a package of 3 underwear runs about $10, 4 pairs of socks about $10.
All in all, the expenses for me and the kids came out to about $2300 per month, with the only 'non-necessary' being a $100 contribution to a mutual fund my Dad helped me set up for retirement, and the entertainment/recreation amount, which was about $75 per month.
Then I saw my ex's expense list. OUTRAGEOUS! Ridiculous! He's listed entertainment, recreation and vacation as three separate expenses that total $430 per month, gifts at $50, $165 for banking/accounting/legal costs? His lawyer alone should be more than $165 per month, and my lawyer told me you don't include legal fees, as they are "voluntary expenses", so banking and accounting is apparently worth $165 in his world? Another $200 for meals outside the home, and $475 for groceries?! Ok, he works away from home, but refuses to establish a home.. he lives in his trailer that he takes to work, and stays at either his parents' or friends' homes, or stays in his trailer when he's not working. He's even listed $50 per month for newspapers? In the end, he's listing his monthly expenses at just about $6000 per month. Does this not seem absolutely outrageous, when mortgage and property taxes combined come to less than $800, and he pays no utilities? Oh yeah, he's listed his cell phone expense at $400 per month...
So, what kind of expense lists are going on out there? For those of you who've prepared them, have you had the same concerns I have? Did your lawyer direct you to a 'sample' or 'typical' list? Have any of you experienced or heard of a judge just throwing out a list of expenses for being obviously unreasonable?
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