What is considered "extraordinary" when it comes to extracurricular activities?

[billm]

...The mother also has her grandmother take care of the child 2 nights a week for 2-3 hours. The mother claims she pays her grandmother $250/month for this childcare and demands that the father pay the proportionate share for this babysitting to the grandmother. ...

Hahaha - we are a depraved species.

Either the mother is lying and she is not paying the grandmother, or the grandmother is being paid to watch her own grand kid.

Either way - nice family, the father is lucky to be out of there!

[Maggie82]

To answer some questions:

Dad has always lived 1.5 hours away. Dad and the child's mother were never in a relationship and have been raising the child separately since the child was born. Dad actually lived only 1 hour away until the mother moved farther away, increasing the distance (and travel costs) for Dad to see the child.

If Dad had been consulted, he would have agreed to the activity if the child could be registered halfway in between his two homes (if the activity falls during Dad's access time) or if the activity did not interfere with Dad's access time as much as it does. Dad would also have agreed to reasonable expenses (not the most expensive equipment you could get your hands on), especially since the child is only "trying" the sport to see whether or not he likes it.

FYI - Dad communicated this to the mother who replied with a refusal to drive halfway, a refusal to interfere with her custody time, and a refusal to get anything "but the best." So Dad took a stand and told her to pay for it on her own if she isn't willing to compromise. (And Dad was willing to compromise despite his unemployment at the time.)

So you see, (@Qrious), this has nothing to do with any "dislike" for the mother, but rather a need for a respectful co-parenting relationship where one parent doesn't dictate what the other parent must do and, more importantly, what she thinks the other parent must pay above and beyond child support, daycare, and all activities that Dad signs the child up for on his time.

[FWB]

Either way - nice family, the father is lucky to be out of there!

Grandma is the Divorce Matriarch...Apple trees produce apples, and the cycle continues down the generations.

Lucky is right, even if he didn't get a chance to take his belongings

stupid greedy ex's easily confuse extraordinary with extracurricular.

As if this isn't bad enough, it's even more ridiculous when the Section proportionate to income, is applied to household expenses. But guess what? When it comes to splitting equity...miraculously it becomes 50/50

Gotta love it..and makes you want to start singing this <----------

[arabian]

In an ideal situation Mom and Dad would go together to purchase the equipment, especially if it is expensive.

I have known many friends who have tried to purchase used good quality, safe, sporting equipment for their kids. It isn't easy, particularly when a child is starting the sport in the middle of the season. For some sports (skiing, hockey to name just a few) it is extremely important that the equipment fits property to ensure high standard of safety for the child.

[MS Mom]

To answer some questions:

So you see, (@Qrious), this has nothing to do with any "dislike" for the mother, but rather a need for a respectful co-parenting relationship where one parent doesn't dictate what the other parent must do and, more importantly, what she thinks the other parent must pay above and beyond child support, daycare, and all activities that Dad signs the child up for on his time.

Maggie - I hear your pain on this. It isn't about disliking people, its about treating them with the same respect they expect to be treated with. And, if this has been going on a while, it's easy to dislike the constant sh!t-stirrer isn't it?

If I were the dad, I'd stand my ground on this one and see what she does with it.

As for the babysitting, I don't see the need to pay a family member at all. I do see the need to provide them with expenses. In my case, my dad drives my daughter to school and picks her up, takes her to a sport after school, drives her to any dental appointment and stays with her. He makes her dinner nightly and takes her on emergency from school or whatever. And for this, he struggles to take $25/week from me. I insist as he's retired and spends much more on her throughout the week on all sorts. So, $250 a month to a family member is outrageous for what they're doing for you.

[Maggie82]

Billm, I agree that's it's a bit odd that the grandmother is getting paid (supposedly) $250/month to watch a 6th grader for 6 hours/week! Especially since the grandmother has always babysat the child and the demand for payment only came recently... coincidentally right before the mother's 5th trip abroad in 18 months (to visit her new husband who she married 3 months after meeting on vacation oversees). Hmmmmmm...

[Maggie82]

Thanks MS - If anything, it's just frustrating!

My mother watches our son twice a week, cooks, and even tidies/cleans when he naps. My parents also watch both my son and stepson whenever my husband and I need to be away. And they do this free of charge because they enjoy spending time with the kids.

While my husband works on Saturdays, I am the one that watches his son and takes him to hockey practice (a 5-hour mission) dragging our little one along. And I do this free of charge, not once even thinking about asking my stepson's mother to be compensated for my "babysitting" her child. And I have been doing this since the child was born! (My husband and I have been together 12 years, having met shortly after his "meeting" - one night stand at a party - with his son's mother.) So we've been through hell and back and felt we have finally gotten to a good place in the co-parenting relationship with the mother, until she sprang all these expenses on us she feels are owed to her because she considers them S7 expenses (because all of a sudden she needs money to fund, as my husband believes, her oversees vacations and 2 weddings.)

Either way, we try to do what's best for the child, but it's hard when you can't help but feel like a doormat. KWIM?

[FWB]

Wow...the more I read these stories i.e. the "meetings", blended families and all that....am glad that 1. I gave myself the best Xmas gift ever, even though it came after new years 2. glad that am not dragging myself into another situation and 3. that am still alive & healthy

Praying to the Lord has helped

[Canadaguy]

the mother signed the child up for an expensive activity without consulting the father.

Tell the mother “We are both parents to our child and must inform each other before registering the child in any activity”

the activity falls during his access time

Tell the mother “the child will not attend activities during his access time as the father has activities, events and things planned with the child during that time”

The mother demands that the father pay his share of the expense (60%)

Tell the mother “the father will not pay for activities that he is not consulted with and approve of for activities during his access time that the child will not be attending”

what is considered "extraordinary."

All ordinary expenses are covered by child support if the child does not spend more than 40% of his time with his father. If access time is shared, ordinary expenses are shared 50/50.

If child support is say $8,000 paid per year, and the activity is say normal hockey at $1,000 a year I would consider that a normal expense. If the hockey was on the travel team and cost double or triple that, it would be considered an extra-ordinary.

The child receives daily child care through a registered provider. This cost is shared proportionately by the parents.

Is the mother low income that could potentially get child care subsidy? Then the father would not have to pay for child care at all.

The mother also has her grandmother take care of the child 2 nights a week for 2-3 hours. The mother claims she pays her grandmother $250/month for this childcare and demands that the father pay

Tell the mother “The father will not pay for extra childcare costs to an unregistered daycare provider. If the mother needs extra care outside of the registered daycare provider then she needs to find a registered provided (just one) that can accommodate her work schedule or find a way for the child to be with his father during that time. If new daycare provider is required it must be selected by both parents approval.”

[Qrious]

Tell the mother “the child will not attend activities during his access time as the father has activities, events and things planned with the child during that time”

What if the child wishes to participate in his activity on that weekend?

At what point do we take into account what the children want to do, and not just be concerned with whose "weekend" it is and what that parent wishes to do with the child? Isn't it the CHILD'S weekend too, not just the parents'?

Many sports, like hockey, require you to register your child in the area of their primary residence. That would mean that a child whose parents live 1.5 hours apart cannot necessarily just elect to register for hockey halfway in between... unless halfway in between happened to still be in the designated area for the child's primary residence for the organized sport.

Many other sports, clubs, and activities do not have these restrictions.

[Canadaguy]

I totally agree Qrious. that is the alternative option for the father in this situation but in most high conflict cases sometimes you have to take a hard stance to teach the other parent how to play the game and that they cannot walk all over you.

Hopefully they can use all the information provided and make the best decision for the child and at the same time teach mom how to consult beforehand and not demand crazy things.

[Qrious]

I hear what your're saying, Canadaguy. I just wish it was a perfect world for all of our children and that things like this were never an issue. For any of us.

[MS Mom]

What if the child wishes to participate in his activity on that weekend?

At what point do we take into account what the children want to do, and not just be concerned with whose "weekend" it is and what that parent wishes to do with the child? Isn't it the CHILD'S weekend too, not just the parents'?

Many sports, like hockey, require you to register your child in the area of their primary residence. That would mean that a child whose parents live 1.5 hours apart cannot necessarily just elect to register for hockey halfway in between... unless halfway in between happened to still be in the designated area for the child's primary residence for the organized sport.

Many other sports, clubs, and activities do not have these restrictions.

I'm not sure I'd be letting the child make all these decisions. Not everything a kid wants should be given to them. I think there are other children dad has to consider in this mix too, and sometimes the kids just need to suck it up. Not everything is reachable financially for every parent - that needs to be considered as well.

My daughter would happily decide to have horseback riding every weekend, and every weekday. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow for it.

[FWB]

Not everything a kid wants should be given to them.

Ahahahahahah.....take the bold out and replace it with adult. I'll say your statement still holds, won't you agree?

There goes that entitlement beast again

[Maggie82]

I think we all do our best to do what is right by the kids. After all, they did not choose the circumstance they are faced with. Unfortunately, parents sometimes have to take a stand to protect themselves, even if it means the children suffer this one time. Most of the time, though, the children don't even notice.

My husband and I work very hard to provide his son with as normal and stable a life as possible given the circumstances at his other house. And luckily for us, we have reassurance from the counsellor that my stepson sees regularly and from the judge at our last court date that we ARE doing something right. At our last counselling update, the counsellor congratulated my husband and I on our parenting, saying he has never met a child who is so well adjusted and who feels so loved and loves all his parents equally, biological and step parents, and who views both households as his homes equally, regardless of how much time he spends in each.

The judge at our last court hearing applauded my husband for always going above and beyond what he is legally obligated to do, and indicated that it's okay if he sometimes needs to stand up for his rights and stick to the letter of the law because, as the saying goes, if you give an inch, they will try to take a mile! (We once had to write the mother a cheque for 46 cents, believe it or not! She will fight tooth and nail for every single penny, especially when she is not legally obligated to receive it.)

In the end, we feel that we are right to stand up to my stepson's mother and refuse to pay for this particular activity and the extra babysitting she claims to need. But the law is so blurred sometimes, especially when it comes to S7 expenses, that it's hard to feel that what you are doing is right.

Thanks for understanding.