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  • advice on how to handle bill payments

    So how does one handle this situation?

    Here is the situation my nephew he has a no contact order based on false allegations and is displaced from the matrimonial home as a result.

    He continues to make the mortage payment, plus give cheques to the wife to help support her and the kids and pay the bills. Plus she is depositing the rental income cheques from the basement tenants. Yet she continues to forward the bills on to him eg internet, cable, water etc. The intent of his cheques to her are to use that money to pay the bills...

    What should he do? He can't tell her no because that would be breaking the no contact order. The bills are all in his name. He gives her $2000, plus the mortgage plus an additional 1200 rental income. It all goes to her. So for her to sending him bills based on her usage is just unreal. For example, if he calls the cell phone provider and says switch the account into her name, theyre going to want to talk to her to confirm and that cant be done... so what to do?

  • #2
    I'm sure others more knowledgable about this, will respond. I never had to deal with this, in my circumstances, but am wondering how this would be handled as well.

    I'm mostly wondering about things like Internet, and Cable TV. One couldn't cancel the water or mortgage obviously, on one's ex. But would one be expected to pay Internet? For a non-necessity like that, I would think the person who's name the bill is in, could simply cancel that service.

    I would also wonder why the rental income (that is presumably income shared by the two of them?) would not be applied to the bills?

    Comment


    • #3
      rental income is income at the end of the day, so for him to let her keep is generous.

      he doesnt want to cancel services on her, he just wants her to use all the money he is providing her to pay bills. She's getting over and above as it is now, so its just unreal that she cant have the decency to pay for her own cell bill.

      The other problem is, if you do call to cancel/change something, companies like Rogers kind of screw you over because a. they want to confirm with the person taking over the account and b. they require 30 days to cancel and you have to return the equipment and since he cant access the house so therefore he cant return the equipment and its safe to say she wouldnt do it.

      Such a dilemma...

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll be watching for answers here too, as I'm really curious as to what one should do here. Make sure he's keeping receipts or documenation, of what money he is paying her.

        It seems to me, with the amount of money he's paying to her already, that covers the bills. He would have a good idea of what the bills were/are. I guess, if the bills are in his own name, he could simply pay them direct, instead of fowarding that particular money to her. Perhaps that is what should be done here? As she is obviously not taking care of the bills?

        That would also help protect his credit in the interim, as well. If she's not paying the bills with his money, then it's his credit that is going down. Take her out of the equation.

        Again, I never went through this type of scenario before, myself. I'm sure someone who has, will respond.

        Comment


        • #5
          What he does will depend on what kind of position he wants to take going forward, and other factors, like, are they separated? Is a divorce imminent/reconciliation not possible? What is his financial situation currently like/cash flow?

          Based on the limited info provided:

          - if the bills are all in his name i would contact the service providers directly and make arrangements to have the bills sent to him directly and to have payments received from him directly.
          - continue to pay the mortgage and bills (if you don't want to cut/cancel any services), but stop paying any extra on top of that. He'll have to be prepared to argue that he was paying ALL houses expenses plus handing over the full amount of rental income; hence the total of these amounts was what he was paying in lieu of child support during this time. Assume no spousal support is payable and don't pay any

          Had a friend who was in a very similar but worse situation (all too common these days I find) - he dithered with paying everything for a few months but in the end cut off all except essential services. That among other things actually prompted a speedier settlement than if he continued to pay for everything plus demanded support amounts. But that's a long story for another day/post ...
          Last edited by Exquizique; 12-20-2012, 11:04 AM.

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          • #6
            Rereading the info provided thus far, seems to me, that the only money he should be "handing over to her", is child support, and perhaps, possibly spousal support? There's not enough info to know if she is entitled to spousal support. Especially if she's getting the rental income in the interim? I would guess no, for now.

            That would be determined I guess, once court happens?

            Sounds like all the other bills, mortgage, etc, could probably be paid direct by your nephew, through direct bank payment/transfers, online billing, etc. I think he's handing over *way* too much money to her. Pay the bills direct, without her being the "middle-woman", and provide her child support, which can easily be looked up, on the federal child support tables.

            Sorry, I keep posting... lol.

            Comment


            • #7
              1- the first thing that should be kept in mind is if reconciliation is achievable, specially are both sides looking for reconciliation or not.

              2- if reconciliation is possible then the task should start, the no-contact order must have a clause allowing him to contact her via counsel, if its not there then a bail/undertaking amendment should be sought immediately. (basis could be for the *purposes of access to children*) the crown *may* ask her if she wishes to allow such contact, if she refuses then its obvious that she does not want to reconcile.

              3- if reconciliation is not possible all expenses that are not a legal requirement should be terminated with appropriate notice, it will be difficult to get credit for most amounts later on, and without a court order/SA he cannot claim those amounts on his tax files.

              4- Such notice should be given via counsel. I have not yet come across a situation where contact via counsel is not allowed. cutting those services is not what he wants, i understand that, but clearly she is being unethical and trying to nickle and dime him. he needs to set the record straight, specially because later on her lawyer would argue to get more than what he is paying now, and will most likely succeed since SS takes under consideration the payor's ability to pay (As well as other factors).

              Comment


              • #8
                To give a decisive answer to this question, all the facts are important. For example I realize he is giving her 2000 support a month etc etc and she keeps the rental income, BUT that doesnt mean the 1200 of rental income is xtra, it just may mean that he was ordered to give her 3200 a month and instead he gives her 2k and lets her keep the rental income. The next fact is---was he ordered to pay the ultilities etc. I know to some of you this seems like a large amount of expenditure but it is all relative. In my case I can tell you that my x was ordered to give me a large sum of money monthly (which was doubled btw when we had our final settlement) and also pay for property taxes, cell phone, land line, cable, internet and insurance for the house and car. If he is ordered to pay I highly reccomend that he doesnt cancel anything, and if this is not ordered he should be in touch with his lawyer and come to an agreement through his x's lawyer.
                Since he already has a strike against him be that as it may it is false I strongly suggest he doesnt pull any punches and does everything through counsel.
                I know this seems as tho there is a lot of money going out in one direction but each case is different. If the paying spouce is earning 600k a year then SS will be based on that number, so you must realize it is all relative.
                Last edited by momforever1956; 12-20-2012, 02:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  sorry I guess my post wasn't clear, they have only been seperated a few weeks. I think in an ideal world he would love to reconcile, but there is one condition he isn't willing to accept AKA he has to cut off all communication and relationships with his side of the family.

                  He hasn't been ordered anything and no he isn't a high income earner.

                  He is paying the mortgage and the money he gives her was intended to pay for any bills that come in. The rental income is just bonus. However she is not using any of the money she receives from the tenants or from him to pay the bills.

                  I have told him to stop giving her additional cheques. Its one thing to pay the bills and mortgage, he is a good man for doing it considering he hasn't been ordered to and they aren't even near that stage. He's an even better man for allowing her to keep the rental income. He is willing to pay whats fair but this is taking it too far, at the end of the day the loves of his life are his children and they are with her for now.

                  Thank you to everyone for taking their time to chime in.

                  Is it true that spousal support is payable based on the length of marriage? What are the general guidelines for how long someone pays spousal supprt for?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    MySupportCalculator.ca is a good place to start to figure out the implications of SS. If he in fact does not have an order to pay her, he can easily reduce the 2k and instead he can pay the bills with that money. She keeps the rental income for CS and groceries etc. If she is unwilling to work with him, that is one way he can get around it. The fact is the bills are in his name and if he chooses not to pay them--it will effect his ratings.
                    It seems that Legal counsel is in order here to guide him through this process, unless he takes some good advice from experienced people on this board who have self represented and done well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      He needs to retain a lawyer as this is a tough issue and it really depends on what position he wants to take.

                      If he wants to keep things somewhat civil (enough though that is likely out the door with the DV charge) he should have his lawyer send a letter stating that he will continue to pay his proportional share of the mortgage and will child support in accordance with the guidelines. However, effective X date, he will no longer be responsible for any utilities or other household bills as he no longer resides there. Where a service provider won't remove his name, he will have to cancel the service and she will have to set it up under her name and that she will be advised in advance of any service provider that she will need to setup.

                      Then he calls all of the service providers and tells them to change the name on the bills to her alone. If they say that they won't change the name, you say cancel it effective 60 days from now and than have the lawyer notify the ex that she is responsible to re-connect the service at her own expense.

                      The not-so-civil way kinda also depends on whether or not he cares if his credit takes a hit. As he no longer resides in the house, he could have his lawyer state that he will no longer be responsible for ANY household bills (mortgage included) and that he will only pay c/s in accordance with the guidelines. The utilities will be cut off the same way as abose.

                      He also needs to get into court to get a court order for access. The money he is giving her now for all this stuff would be better spent on him establishing a new home, getting a good lawyer and getting parenting time with his kids.

                      Regarding spousal support, until there is an order stating that he has to pay it, don't.
                      Last edited by HammerDad; 12-20-2012, 03:37 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was in a very similar state once, falsely charged with DV, but still paid the rent, internet and what not trying to remain a human in face of cruelty, she made further false allegations, got charged again, continued to pay (despite every one telling me to stop) she tried a third time. finally stopped being nice to her, that didnt set her mind "straight" but it did soften her up a bit.

                        the point is, some times cruelty needs to be dealt with an iron fist.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Does he still have contact with the kids? By getting this no-contact order, his ex is doing the classic evil tactic to set up a status quo of dad getting no time with the kids. He's got to fight that, right from the start, to share the kids equally even if he isn't in the house anymore.

                          And false DV allegations are not the tactic of someone who would ever consider reconciliation. He's got to give that hope up pronto and operate on the assumption that she's playing hardball.

                          As for bill paying, I would suggest that he look up child support table amounts for both their incomes, and only pay her the offset difference by cheque. His logic is that he intends to have 50-50 shared custody of the children, and this is the proper amount for that arrangement. Cancel all the bills in his name (give her 30 days notice) and let her set them up in her own name. He may have to continue paying the mortgage to avoid a hit to his credit rating, however. But that's the most he should do. Now, she's got a good reason to start negotiating with him (through lawyers).

                          If he keeps giving her all this money, she's going to drag things on as long as she can because it's a sweet deal for her. Then he'll never see his kids, and she'll set up status quo of receiving spousal support as well.

                          He has to act now, while the situation is fresh, before he sets any precedents of being nothing more than a wallet to his kids.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                            Does he still have contact with the kids? By getting this no-contact order, his ex is doing the classic evil tactic to set up a status quo of dad getting no time with the kids. He's got to fight that, right from the start, to share the kids equally even if he isn't in the house anymore.

                            And false DV allegations are not the tactic of someone who would ever consider reconciliation. He's got to give that hope up pronto and operate on the assumption that she's playing hardball.

                            As for bill paying, I would suggest that he look up child support table amounts for both their incomes, and only pay her the offset difference by cheque. His logic is that he intends to have 50-50 shared custody of the children, and this is the proper amount for that arrangement. Cancel all the bills in his name (give her 30 days notice) and let her set them up in her own name. He may have to continue paying the mortgage to avoid a hit to his credit rating, however. But that's the most he should do. Now, she's got a good reason to start negotiating with him (through lawyers).

                            If he keeps giving her all this money, she's going to drag things on as long as she can because it's a sweet deal for her. Then he'll never see his kids, and she'll set up status quo of receiving spousal support as well.

                            He has to act now, while the situation is fresh, before he sets any precedents of being nothing more than a wallet to his kids.
                            Agreed.

                            He needs a lawyer now to get a motion filed ASAP to get parenting time. Ask for 50/50. That is the most important factor right now.

                            I also agree that if he does nothing, she will sit on her hands and let it ride as long as she can. Why? Because there is no incentive for her to move it along. She is getting all the bills paid and collecting the rent funds and won't want to actually have to take responsibility to maintain any for herself. If he is going to be gullible and give her a free ride, why would she do anything?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              thank you for your advice and guidance everyone

                              i've passed it along and can only hope he follows

                              my understanding is he has filed thie form 8 but has yet to retain a lawyer although he is interviewing them

                              he has said he wont be issuing any more cheques, we are fairly confident the false allegations will be dismissed especially the police officer hinted at it since he has seen what's really going on as opposed to what she is trying to protray as what is really going on
                              Last edited by looloo; 12-21-2012, 10:55 AM. Reason: oh yah - Merry Christmas everyone, may the new year bring about a year of peace and happiness

                              Comment

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