Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

S7 Expenses - Dental

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • S7 Expenses - Dental

    I'm wondering what others believe to be an appropriate length of time to respond to your ex's request for S7 expenses, such as orthodontics?

    I emailed my ex and his lawyer a copy of the invoice/treatment plan for my daughter's braces. She's anxious to get them on (sooner they're on, the sooner they're off she says) but I really need his share of the expense (or at least his share of the initial $1600 payment - the remainder will be on a monthly payment plan) to proceed.

    My group insurance covers $0 towards this expense and my ex doesn't carry any benefits for our daughter (despite it being in the court order).

    My ex typically never responds to anything at all, so I have no idea what the typical "turn around time" is in that household. What is an appropriate wait before I make a second request for this?

    We're back in court in April for Settlement Conference, but the ex still hasn't complied with any financial disclosure, or information regarding benefits for our daughter (which the judge wants proof he can no longer insure due to a move state-side).

    I don't want this to wait until April - his track record for complying to orders is quite dismal, and that could mean an additional 6 months before the braces go on.

  • #2
    My order states that we must reimburse each other within 7 days of receiving the receipt.

    I do have a question related to orthodontics. My kids are going to need orthodontics and I'm going to get them and pay for my share but does the court view these expenses as "cosmetic" as opposed to "required"

    I'm just curious.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by FB_ View Post
      My order states that we must reimburse each other within 7 days of receiving the receipt.

      I do have a question related to orthodontics. My kids are going to need orthodontics and I'm going to get them and pay for my share but does the court view these expenses as "cosmetic" as opposed to "required"

      I'm just curious.

      From my Canlii reading, I haven't seen orthodontics treated as "optional" for children. The orthodontist clearly stated that her issue is beyond cosmetic and that was noted on the invoice (for both dad and the insurers).

      My order states that it must be reimbursed within 7 days, but my ex uses our existing order as toilet paper I think.

      What's a reasonable time to send another note to the ex/his lawyer about the expense? I sent the email on Monday and, as per usual, haven't heard a word in response. I don't want to be a "nag" and have that come back to haunt me in April.

      Comment


      • #4
        You could try sending a request with a respond by date, let them know that if no response is received either way you will assume implied consent based on the fact that they have not denied the request. If no response, proceed with the dental work and have it brought up in April at the conference. Also consider moving to our family wizard for communications so you know that the messages have been received and read - regardless if they choose to respond.

        Ask your dentist if they can bill to each household individually, as well. Ours does.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
          You could try sending a request with a respond by date, let them know that if no response is received either way you will assume implied consent based on the fact that they have not denied the request. If no response, proceed with the dental work and have it brought up in April at the conference. Also consider moving to our family wizard for communications so you know that the messages have been received and read - regardless if they choose to respond.

          Ask your dentist if they can bill to each household individually, as well. Ours does.
          Thanks Blink. The dentist wants one person to be responsible and since the ex hasn't bothered with the child in 2 years, that responsible person is me.

          His proportionate share is 75%, which leaves a huge balance owing by him since the expense is $6500 total.

          The biggest problem I'm facing is that I don't have the $1600 to put down, I need his share of it to do that. $1600 represents almost a months' take home pay for me (but only a week for the ex) - and considering he's 10G in arrears, I'm flat freaking broke. I'm also trying to keep all this away from the child - so she's not aware of just how much of a deadbeat he is.

          He'll question the validity of the invoice, I'll be accused of altering it, I'll be accused of hiding my insurance repayment (that is never coming), etc, etc, etc.

          The kid needs braces though and waiting on him will just close the perfect window of opportuntity (dental wise that is) for them. I'll see if the banks will up the credit limit on the cards and send him another note with a deadline for response.

          Comment


          • #6
            Very sad situation for the child. Unfortunately you may not have much choice but to pay for it up front. Does your order state you pay and then he reimburses you? Paying upfront and then seeking repayment, I think would be easier than attempting to get the money out of him before hand. At least this way you can show the Judge the actual cost and a bill.

            Are you through FRO?

            Comment


            • #7
              The order states he's responsible and he has to pay within 7 days. I'm still trying to get expenses from 2010. We're in court now, Settlement Conference in April. FRO doesn't collect S7 expenses - at least not mine. I've already tried that route for other expenses.

              When you send a statement of arrears to FRO, they send a copy to the other party. If the other party objects, then FRO won't collect. And of course, he objected using the "consent" clause. Ridiculous really. But, FRO doesn't want to interpret agreements, just follow them.

              The only reason I'm trying to get it from him beforehand is because I just don't have it. But, I guess I'll have to just find it won't I?

              I emailed them again yesterday, but, no response as usual.

              Comment


              • #8
                Can you not have a set amount for section 7 placed in your agreement and then have FRO enforce?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well if he is 10 G in arrears you,should be requesting FRO start garnishing his income at source.

                  Step 1. They send him to the credit bureau, who request immediate payment and this is on his credit rating for 7 years. Hurts for loans, mortgages etc.
                  Step 2. They send request to his employer for amount to be garnished. Up to 50% of his monthly wage.

                  I know FRO is slow, but you need to persist with a daily phone call leaving a detailed message each time, with phone number and time they can call you. Also follow up with a fax requesting they take enforcement actions. If he is forced to pay the 10G back then you can afford the dental work.

                  The next step would be to submit a motion to have the dental cost administered through FRO.

                  If you are bot registered with FRO. Do so right away. It does takes a few months, but you do,not need his consent, just a court ordered settlement.

                  If your daughter has to wait a couple,of months for the braces then it will not be the end of the world. My girls had to wait until we could save up the deposit and I got a job so we could pay,the monthly amount. I think thats a normal dilemma for lots of intact families as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                    Well if he is 10 G in arrears you,should be requesting FRO start garnishing his income at source.

                    Step 1. They send him to the credit bureau, who request immediate payment and this is on his credit rating for 7 years. Hurts for loans, mortgages etc.
                    Step 2. They send request to his employer for amount to be garnished. Up to 50% of his monthly wage.

                    I know FRO is slow, but you need to persist with a daily phone call leaving a detailed message each time, with phone number and time they can call you. Also follow up with a fax requesting they take enforcement actions. If he is forced to pay the 10G back then you can afford the dental work.

                    The next step would be to submit a motion to have the dental cost administered through FRO.

                    If you are bot registered with FRO. Do so right away. It does takes a few months, but you do,not need his consent, just a court ordered settlement.

                    If your daughter has to wait a couple,of months for the braces then it will not be the end of the world. My girls had to wait until we could save up the deposit and I got a job so we could pay,the monthly amount. I think thats a normal dilemma for lots of intact families as well.
                    Most of the arrears aren't court ordered yet (he pays child support on his 2010 income, which is substantially less than the current income)- which is why I'm in court now. Some of the arrears is S7 expenses which is in my current court order but FRO won't enforce. I've already tried, but he objects to everything even if it is in our agreement (medical, dental, daycare).

                    He's the master of delays and stalls. He was served in August - I still don't have a financial statement and we're going into Settlement Conference in April.

                    He's represented by a lawyer, he has no excuses for his current behaviour. His lawyer should be telling him to pay the bills, pay the arrears, but instead the lawyer is questioning the receipts Iprovided (accusations of altering), and wants to go through my tax returns to recover $9 in tax credits I received. Ridiculous that the courts allow this silliness....and encourage it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I understand we deal with the same issues. We eventually submitted a motion to have daycare expenses ordered and collected through FRO. We took an average month fees, calculated the % he should be paying and then included a yearly adjustment calculation clause.

                      Just waiting on his reply before we proceed to the next step.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                        Can you not have a set amount for section 7 placed in your agreement and then have FRO enforce?

                        Exactly what I'm trying to do Berner. I have asked for a set amount of S7 to cover her sport, and will now be ammending my request to include the orthodontic amount at a set amount each month.

                        I served him in August, and I still have no resolution to anything. Not even a financial statement.

                        He's just being an obstinant idiot really. I've asked for increased CS due to income change, $300 monthly towards arrears (nearly $10G total), $125/m for her sport and $165/m for the braces, in addition to $1200 downpayment for braces.

                        None of what I'm asking for is at all "over the top". I've not even bothered asking for anything to do with other sports/clubs - just the main one - which isn't cheap. I haven't asked for anything towards equipment for the sport, even though it's expensive as well.

                        I've also invited him to pay everyone directly (the sport facility, the dentist) to avoid all this crap about altered receipts, tax credits etc. I also advised his lawyer that he's welcome to take the whole $9 tax credit I received off of his payment in order to put that issue away.

                        I'm still trying to get him to pay for expenses from 2 years ago, so I know this won't be a priority for him, which is why I need to push it so hard. She'll get her braces, I may just have to give up my car to get them. Doesn't seem fair when he's making 2.5 times what I do and has 0 in access costs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The order states he's responsible and he has to pay within 7 days. I'm still trying to get expenses from 2010. We're in court now, Settlement Conference in April. FRO doesn't collect S7 expenses - at least not mine. I've already tried that route for other expenses.
                          Hubby had section 7 clause in original order and it did say for section items that were "on consent". Now mom didn't ever do this, but it was verified by both myself and our lawyer at the time: FRO said that regardless of the "consent" portion in the SA that they would enforce ANY and ALL section 7 claims that mom put on the statement. The agent said "right or wrong, we take this as the word of law because it as good as an affadavit". We challenged this interpretation and told our lawyer about it. Even our lawyer said this can't be and called herself. She was told the very same thing. She was also told that if dad didn't agree to it he could take it up in court.

                          Now, again, she never did this (I assume because she was too busy haunting us in other ways it slipped her mind) but we thought to call and ask because she had threatened to do this. And she wanted to put bizarre expenses like gifts to teachers at Xmas and end of school year and was nickle and diming us for mittens despite getting almost $3K of support a month...

                          And orthodontics are considered a medical necessity if a dentist deems them appropriate. Perhaps you could finance on a credit card or ask the dentist to direct bill to your insurance provider (they would then get the reimbursements and you would pay the difference).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Serene View Post
                            Hubby had section 7 clause in original order and it did say for section items that were "on consent". Now mom didn't ever do this, but it was verified by both myself and our lawyer at the time: FRO said that regardless of the "consent" portion in the SA that they would enforce ANY and ALL section 7 claims that mom put on the statement. The agent said "right or wrong, we take this as the word of law because it as good as an affadavit". We challenged this interpretation and told our lawyer about it. Even our lawyer said this can't be and called herself. She was told the very same thing. She was also told that if dad didn't agree to it he could take it up in court.

                            Now, again, she never did this (I assume because she was too busy haunting us in other ways it slipped her mind) but we thought to call and ask because she had threatened to do this. And she wanted to put bizarre expenses like gifts to teachers at Xmas and end of school year and was nickle and diming us for mittens despite getting almost $3K of support a month...

                            And orthodontics are considered a medical necessity if a dentist deems them appropriate. Perhaps you could finance on a credit card or ask the dentist to direct bill to your insurance provider (they would then get the reimbursements and you would pay the difference).
                            FRO won't enforce the S7 expenses - I have tried. Despite FLIC, Duty Counsel and my previous lawyer telling me they would enforce them, they just won't in my case. I think it's because the ex objects. FRO states that the order needs to be a definitive number.

                            My insurance doesn't cover braces, otherwise I'd just wait for them to process the payment based on the quote.

                            When dad did have insurance for her, it only impeded the process because of the first birthday rule in coordination of benefits. Even though she was 100% covered between both dad and I, I had to pay out of pocket for everything because he just wouldn't submit a form.

                            He has to have insurance for her under our existing order. He also has to pay his share under our existing order. But, he just ignores the existing order, which is why I'm back in court again.

                            I'd put it on my credit card, but I don't have the credit. It's eaten up with legal bills and aforementioned expenses that were never paid.

                            It's become very obvious to me that he just doesn't give a crap. He prefers to ensure his lawyer's teeth are nice and straight and he's kept in Hugo Boss suits.

                            Comment

                            Our Divorce Forums
                            Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                            Working...
                            X