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  • How to Maintain Precarious Stability?

    I'm in a bit of a dilemma, triggered by money (aren't they all?) but probably linked in to everything, really. So I'm hoping for some advice before I blunder ahead and maybe make a critical mistake.

    My ex and I are doing our best to be cooperative. Well, I try really hard to set aside my emotions and deal with him for the sake of our children, and I believe I'm going well above and beyond what any normal person would be expected to do. But maybe it only seems like that from within the situation. As for my ex, who knows what he's thinking; I have given up trying to fathom his logic ever since he tried to convince me it should be perfectly acceptable for him to lie to me and have two women in his life.

    Anyways, since our separation, I have continued to live in our home and so do our children. I have the greater income, and was the one who could afford to do it. However, I do not pay him any spousal support, as he had a pride thing going on, and we both recognized that I would not be able to keep the house for the kids otherwise. Our main focus has been very strongly on the children, something I learned early on from this forum.

    Our separation agreement has been agonizingly slow to finalize. It's been a year and a half, going from mediator to lawyer to lawyer, just tinkering with legal wording. Which is funny, because we're both treating it as a backup plan, and cooperating above and beyond what it dictates. But as a result, he is still on title for the house and still has a key, and he still owns the family car I drive now, as he was the one to buy his own, so he has a key to that too. I can't put any of these in my name alone until the agreement is signed. I thought it would go much much faster and I'd be divorced long before now, but lawyers, and my ex's ostrich behaviour and "forgetfulness" have been a serious impediment.

    As he is unable to afford a good place, he comes to our home to see the kids and look after them and do dad things, on a regular basis. Honestly, they see him just about as much as they did when we were married and he lived here, and we both think that stability is important. As he hasn't bought a carseat for his own car, he borrows the other car when he takes them places.

    Based on his low income, I did not expect him to pay child support, as for the past ten years, he hasn't reached the threshold. I figured as long as he kept doing the same job as he did when we were married, I wouldn't pester, or impute him an income or anything, as I didn't really need the money. Well, money is always nice, but honestly, our standard of living is improved without him and his frivolous spending. Anyways.

    Although by guideline, he wasn't required to pay child support last year, he did contribute, doing fun things with the kids, putting gas in the car, for example, bringing groceries home, buying them toys and clothes, and he's still paying all the insurance. I wasn't going to switch that until the agreement is signed; I thought it would be encouragement to hurry, but I guess it isn't.

    I feel as though this situation isn't totally tenable going forward, as, for example, it really keeps me stuck at home as I have all the overnights. But I don't feel I can rock the boat by trying to change any aspect of it, at least not until the separation agreement is signed. But so far, the kids seem to be coping beautifully with the idea of him not living with us, they still see him often, we still do some things as a foursome (heartbreaking as it is for me) and gradually easing forward seems to be the best plan.

    So here's my first question: do you think we're giving the kids mixed messages about our breakup? Are we showing them that two adults can still cooperate and love them, or are we just not making it clear that we've broken up? The kids are very young (3 and 6) so the most difficult questions haven't come yet and won't for a while, probably.

    And the second issue, the financial one. He never changed his address with CRA, and his NoA came to the house. I always set aside his lingering mail for him. He opened it, and forgot it here, so I peeked. Don't get mad; I'd helped him file and knew more or less what to expect. And he's supposed to show me anyways. But this past year, to my surprise, for the first time in a decade, he has actually made enough of an income to technically owe a small amount of child support. So my question is, should I push him to pay it as per the separation agreement we have yet to sign off on, should I wait until after it is signed, should I ignore it and just let him keep buying groceries now and then? I would be happy to let him keep his income, as I don't need it, and frankly on paper he appears to need every penny, and some day I hope he'll have a home he can bring the kids to and I won't have to see him so much, but I wonder what's really going on, because he's still spending on frivolities. I see all kinds of stuff here about people evading CS, and I don't want to encourage that either. If I don't suggest he pay CS now, am I setting a bad precedent for later on down the road, if he should maybe make even more money?

  • #2
    My opinion is going to probably differ from most on here but here goes.

    1. it sounds like you have a very child focused system that is great for the kids even if it feels irritating at times for you. If you can show them that even though mommy and daddy aren't together we can be together for you, you have managed something incredible.

    2. Where I see the biggest problem though is your lack of personal space with him minding the kids at your house. If he is managing to make more money I would want the goal to be him getting himself set up in a space that will accommodate child visits and overnights. Since you said he is not great at money management this must be very frustrating for you but maybe you could ask if he needs your help getting set up. I know it sounds like more of what you wanted to be free of but in the long run you'll be able to move on with both a clear conscience and with space for you.

    2. Here's where people are going to disagree. Because I think the priority is space and because he is and always has contributed to the best of his ability I wouldn't be going after CS at this time. If he has always been under in the amount he earns but spends anyways on the kids that he is contributing and you are civil to each other. That there is a win /win to me. As he continues to get grounded (in his own space) and earn more money - I would ask him later - Hey do you think you could contribute towards this savings fund for the kids or this RESP or what ever since you say you don't need the money.

    Yes you are entitled by the law to go after him for CS but you have a far better arrangement than most and that is priceless. My ex pays me what he can and we can all go out for dinner for my son with our new spouses showing my son what civil and cooperation looks like- And that to me is worth a million bucks.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by karmaseeker View Post
      My opinion is going to probably differ from most on here but here goes.

      1. it sounds like you have a very child focused system that is great for the kids even if it feels irritating at times for you. If you can show them that even though mommy and daddy aren't together we can be together for you, you have managed something incredible.

      2. Where I see the biggest problem though is your lack of personal space with him minding the kids at your house. If he is managing to make more money I would want the goal to be him getting himself set up in a space that will accommodate child visits and overnights. Since you said he is not great at money management this must be very frustrating for you but maybe you could ask if he needs your help getting set up. I know it sounds like more of what you wanted to be free of but in the long run you'll be able to move on with both a clear conscience and with space for you.

      2. Here's where people are going to disagree. Because I think the priority is space and because he is and always has contributed to the best of his ability I wouldn't be going after CS at this time. If he has always been under in the amount he earns but spends anyways on the kids that he is contributing and you are civil to each other. That there is a win /win to me. As he continues to get grounded (in his own space) and earn more money - I would ask him later - Hey do you think you could contribute towards this savings fund for the kids or this RESP or what ever since you say you don't need the money.

      Yes you are entitled by the law to go after him for CS but you have a far better arrangement than most and that is priceless. My ex pays me what he can and we can all go out for dinner for my son with our new spouses showing my son what civil and cooperation looks like- And that to me is worth a million bucks.
      Some peoples really lucky having ex mature enough. Going to dinner with new spouses?????? I could only dream about that. My ex freaking out when she see my spouse in car through tinted window across the street when I drop of little one. New spouse!???? What about 8 year old daughter? Called me a moron infront of her because I brought her once with me when I dropped off little one as we are going for icecream after and I can not leave her in car alone ...

      As for Rioe question.

      If I were you I would try to be very careful and protective of what you have. I mean it looks like you have what most of us here can only dream about... Try to think through. Let assume you will go after CS what you will get really? Probably less than he is spending now and for sure all that pressures cooperation what you have can be shuttered... Yes by law he required to pay CS. But is it really fair law? We all know about that here. There is no law on that planet what will make someone to be a real father or a mother except their own feelings...

      As for messages. I do not know about kids. I think it better for them what you have now than ugly fight for sure. I remember I had a conversation with Social Worker at a hospital before child was discharged. She actually said to me that being so nice, leaving in one apartment, giving flowers and so on is sending wrong messages to my ex. I said to her that I said from very beginning that I will never marry her, I just like to give flowers it make other person to feel good and me the same in return and I stated clearly I am here only for little one. We just leave as roommates who happens to have kid by accident. She replayed that it does not really matter because my actions different from what I said. Go figure.

      Comment


      • #4
        Believe me, I know very well how lucky I am to have this situation, but honestly, it wasn't all luck. I was well on the path to being Ms Vindictive Ex until I found this forum.

        Our separation agreement, unsigned though it is, is just fluff, to be put in a safe deposit box unless something goes sour. I still want it signed though, for my own protection, and to move on with certain things like owning the house I live in.

        But will I get myself into trouble down the road by not enforcing the CS from him now? Unlikely, of course, but what if his situation improves beyond mine or something? He moves in with a rich girlfriend, or suddenly changes jobs or wins a lottery or something. It's okay to not take his money now when he has little, but will that generosity make me unable to start up CS at some point in the future if his situation changes, because of the status quo of not asking for it that I'm building right now?

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        • #5
          Status quo doesn't apply to CS in that you could apply at any time. You may not get arrears but you certainly would get starting at what ever point you brought forth the motion as you remain entitled to this as long as you are raising your child.

          I have seen on here cases where things were going fine for a good number of years and then people went the legal route. That road is always open but warning: when you go down it - it is a one way road - driving straight through crazy town. When I get out of crazy town I'll let you know what waits on the other side.

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          • #6
            Yeah, I have a funny feeling our crazy town is going to be if I ever meet someone else. I anticipate my ex being a complete hypocrite about that one. Anything that prevents him from pretending we're still a happy foursome when we're together, or the idea of his kids having a stepfather, that'll make him explode, I think. Or if his girlfriend dumps him, that'll drive him right off the rails.
            Last edited by Rioe; 05-31-2011, 10:17 PM.

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            • #7
              Someone else is a way to turbo charge right into the centre of crazy town.

              Boundaries Boundaries Boundaries!

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              • #8
                My two cents!
                Probably nothing to do with what you asked. Well, I'll try.

                But are you sure he knows you guys are over?
                Sounds like he's trying to stay in your life too.

                That's all good for the kids and whatnot. Totally awesome if you can pull it off.

                As for CS...
                Well you seem to be in a good place about the whole thing.
                Personally, I think table values are too much. If you are of the same opinion maybe you can be satisfied with what he already does. Having said that - having a kid is worthy of kicking in a substantial amount of money for.

                It comes down to your comfort level, and more importantly - if you can trust each other to do whats right and fair.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                  But are you sure he knows you guys are over?
                  Sounds like he's trying to stay in your life too.
                  He's doing the "our marriage didn't work out but we can still be friends thing" whereas I am doing the "I don't care to be friends with people who cheat and lie to their spouses but I'm being polite to you in front of the kids" thing.

                  But thanks, you guys have eased my mind a lot. I think gradually increasing the space between us will keep pace with the kids growing up and understanding the situation better. And for the CS, you'd think I'd have realized from all the reading here that it's always able to be reopened. Sometimes it's so hard to see clearly from the inside! I guess it's only arrears I wouldn't be able to go after by doing it this way, and it wouldn't be much anyways.

                  It's funny, I know I have a situation many of you would envy, but it still feels so awkward and worrisome to me, like something could go wrong at any moment and I'd end up in the worst situations described here. And seriously, I have you guys (and the original mediator) to thank for me not blundering it all up at the start when my emotions were off the scale.

                  PS I'm saving money now for when the boys decide they want to go live with him when they are teenagers, because I'm going to a owe a lot of CS then!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                    So here's my first question'
                    Finally!!!!

                    Comment

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