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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:12 PM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugg53 View Post
Brampton33,
I disagree with your statement that "if OP says we are separated - that is it". .
Let me re-phrase.... If your ex files an application for divorce, it will be granted. Judges have the authority to either:
  1. Grant the divorce as part of a ruling on other matters such as equalization, supports, custody, etc.
  2. Sever off the divorce and grant the divorce immediately, if they see that any disputes on issues will take time to make their way through the court process.
You cannot argue to a judge that you disagree with your ex's desire to get a divorce and hold up case law. You cannot force someone to stay married to you if they want out. Newsflash Sugg53, you are separated, and if your ex files for divorce, it will be granted, regardless of whether you want it or not. Sorry to be blunt, but a reality check may be needed.
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:54 PM
Sugg53 Sugg53 is offline
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Thanks rockscan. I only bring up Dupere because it is such an unusual case. I am aware that no judge would probably hold it as a precedent (although it is still cited once in a while for a list of factors).

And thanks for a suggestion on conditional separation agreement.

To add a bit of perspective, i think my spouse wants out, but we have a teen and a preteen, who are happy and well adjusted and love both parents, and there is no parental conflict or alienation. I think my spouse is very concerned about how children will see them being the initiator of the divorce, and that, despite our intent and agreement of joint parental decision making and 50/50 parental time, kids would "vote with their feet". It is not an easy situation. I honestly believe that staying together is in the children best interest, and even in my spouse's best interest (yes, I know, they know better) financially and in regard to the relationship with kids. No, we do not discuss any details with kids, and do not badmouth each other. But kids are old enough and they know the bare facts.

I think my spouse is concerned that if they live "separate and apart" enough during all this time, they will drift enough to be "separate and apart" from kids too. Because I am not stopping being a parent, and eating separate, and not spending time playing Scrabble all together, or all of us going for a hike, or visiting friends. I know, I know, "co-parenting post-separation" ( Volcko v. Volcko, 2013 NSSC 342 (CanLII), (aff’d 2015 NSCA 11 (CanLII)) vs "still not separated" ( Boyer v. Brown, 2019 ONSC 3011 (CanLII)) and it all weighs heavily on my mind...
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2021, 01:09 PM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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Wow. I am going to refrain from commenting on this thread, as reason is falling on deaf ears. OP is out to lunch. OP started with stating that ex filed an application with the court, and in the last post states "I think my spouse wants out". OP, if your ex (not spouse) is filling out court papers and paying the application fees with the court, they are on way out. You are separated and most likely getting a divorce, whether you like it or not, barring any attempts at salvaging the marriage. No amount of case law will stop it. I would suggest counseling to learn to cope with situation and accept the reality of what is likely to be a new reality.
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2021, 01:42 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugg53 View Post
To add a bit of perspective, i think my spouse wants out,
There is no think. If your stbx has a lawyer and filled out paperwork then there is no think. They DO want out.

Quote:
but we have a teen and a preteen, who are happy and well adjusted and love both parents, and there is no parental conflict or alienation.
But being forced to stay in a marriage they dont want to be in, conflict will start. Kids stay well adjusted based on parents and the approach to parenting. Non well adjusted kids is not limited to divorce and there are plenty of kids who have no issues despite their parents divorce.

Quote:
I think my spouse is very concerned about how children will see them being the initiator of the divorce,
How will the kids find that out? Are you going to say mom/dad want a divorce? Or mom wants to leave me? No, you tell the kids that you are getting a divorce and you love them and will work on making sure the kids continue to have a good life it will just be split between two houses. Kids are not stupid and are incredibly resilient. There are a lot more divorces now than when I was a kid. Its all in how you manage it.

Quote:
kids would "vote with their feet".
Kids vote with their feet when one or both parents are assholes, abusive or use them as pawns. Not to mention parents make certain rules and SUPPORT living situations. If you both work reasonably and encourage kids to split their time and work together, this doesnt happen.

Quote:
I honestly believe that staying together is in the children best interest, and even in my spouse's best interest
Not always. Having lived with two parents who hated each other and did nothing but fight behind closed doors, I can safely say that fucks up kids more than divorce.

Quote:
I think my spouse is concerned that if they live "separate and apart" enough during all this time, they will drift enough to be "separate and apart" from kids too.
So stop making them feel they need to do this. They dont want to be married and you are forcing them to put distance there. You are being unfair to your spouse and the kids which will lead to the resentment you address above.

You dont want a divorce, understood. But your spouse does and has moved to separate. You can continue to push an agenda that is unhealthy for everyone but you or you can work together to set up a healthy life. I know plenty of people who hate their ex but work very well for the kids. My oldest friend worked with her ex to have him move closer so the kids would spend equal time with him. Even went so far as to work with his new spouse to ensure they ate together as a family like at home. They hated each other but the kids relationship with their dad was more important than how much she hated him.

The bottom line is you both control how this impacts the kids. Instead of spending money on lawyers, work on an amicable split so you can keep the kids close to both of you and in their neighbourhood. Get them into therapy to work through their feels and ACTIVELY SUPPORT A HEALTHY SPLIT. Parents who raise up and support the other parent dont have alienation or issues with kids choosing homes.

You are focusing so much on not divorcing that you dont realize you are making this worse. Why on earth would you want to force someone to stay married to you? That is the biggest thing that will hurt the kids and drive them away from you.
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2021, 01:52 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton33 View Post
I would suggest counseling to learn to cope with situation and accept the reality of what is likely to be a new reality.
This is excellent advice and I strongly encourage it. Divorce is a death of a marriage and requires grieving like any other death. Dealing with the whys and hows causes a lot more emotional stress than the process itself. Speaking to someone who is experienced in helping you through it will go a long way to supporting healing as well as the kids.

Talk to your family doctor or see if your municipality has a family service office that offers counseling.


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  #16  
Old 03-31-2021, 03:01 PM
Sugg53 Sugg53 is offline
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Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments and being a sounding board.
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2021, 06:39 PM
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CoolGuy41 CoolGuy41 is offline
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Default The perfect song for your situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWD5gdpt4Dw
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