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Final Order - How is it to be delivered?

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  • Final Order - How is it to be delivered?

    I have a pretty straight-forward (I think anyway) question that I can only find vague answers to. Maybe my research skills are lacking a little?!

    When the final order has been typed up by the court, signed by the judge (or clerk), are there rules in place regarding the delivery of that order to the affected parties?

    ie. who delivers, how is it to be delivered and in what time frame?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
    I have a pretty straight-forward (I think anyway) question that I can only find vague answers to. Maybe my research skills are lacking a little?!
    Nope. It is a different process at times. Usually one of the parties types out the order and then the other party to the matter accepts it then the judge signs it. You can go get a copy (certified) from the clerks once it has been signed. Some courts will mail you a copy of the order. I always recommend going in to get it yourself.

    Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
    When the final order has been typed up by the court, signed by the judge (or clerk), are there rules in place regarding the delivery of that order to the affected parties?
    They mail it some places in others you have to go pick it up. I would recommend you go pick it up and get it sealed. (Get like 5 copies when you get em.) It is always better to give doctors, schools, etc... copies that bear the court seal that they are official. Sometimes photo copies won't cut it.

    Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
    ie. who delivers, how is it to be delivered and in what time frame?

    Thanks.
    See above.

    Good Luck!
    Tayken

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Tayken.

      I waited 14 months for the draft order to be turned into an order, despite approving it at 1 month. How would a person know if an order has been issued in this instance?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
        Thanks Tayken.

        I waited 14 months for the draft order to be turned into an order, despite approving it at 1 month. How would a person know if an order has been issued in this instance?
        Call the clerks at the court house and give them your file number. They should be able to check to see if it has been completed. If it has they can make a copy and you can go down and pick it up. If it isn't done you can ask them to get on it. Don't go in before calling. They can check on the phone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
          Call the clerks at the court house and give them your file number. They should be able to check to see if it has been completed. If it has they can make a copy and you can go down and pick it up. If it isn't done you can ask them to get on it. Don't go in before calling. They can check on the phone.

          What if the person wanted to appeal the order? Isn't the timeframe 30 days after issuance of the order? I have discovered in my reading that one must appeal the actual order, and that you cannot appeal the Reasons for Judgment.

          If you can't appeal the Reasons and counsel can take as many as 14 months (and counting) to get that order issued, and the court doesn't have to let you know it was issued, how would one know when the appeal timeframe lapses? My logic flowchart is in an infinite loop

          Comment


          • #6
            I believe the onus is on you to ensure the order is done up. If the other lawyer doesn't do it up then you prepare it and send it to the other party for their approval (yes all within the 30 days). If the other party does not send the draft order back to you, then you send it on to to the judge requesting approval, highlighting the appeal period. My lawyer had to do this almost every time as the opposing counsel would never approve draft and return it "forthwith". Judge would just sign off on it and it was entered into court.

            I think losing side hopes the other side (self-represented) isn't aware of the rules....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              I believe the onus is on you to ensure the order is done up. If the other lawyer doesn't do it up then you prepare it and send it to the other party for their approval (yes all within the 30 days). If the other party does not send the draft order back to you, then you send it on to to the judge requesting approval, highlighting the appeal period. My lawyer had to do this almost every time as the opposing counsel would never approve draft and return it "forthwith". Judge would just sign off on it and it was entered into court.

              I think losing side hopes the other side (self-represented) isn't aware of the rules....
              The order I refer to is a costs award against me. I approved the draft 3 times in the last 14 months.

              I guess I'm a little lost in the logic that you only have 30 days to appeal the order, yet there is no delivery/issuance timeframe around the order delivery itself.

              I'm caught up in a game here. I want out of the game.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                What if the person wanted to appeal the order?
                This is a very good question and one that someone like OrleansLawyer would be better at answering.

                Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                Isn't the timeframe 30 days after issuance of the order? I have discovered in my reading that one must appeal the actual order, and that you cannot appeal the Reasons for Judgment.
                This sounds right because the order would have the reasons for judgement and supporting case law. Appeals are done on an error in law and without the completed written document it would be hard to appeal. Again, better answered by another monkey who bashes keys into the keyboard with rocks.

                Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                If you can't appeal the Reasons and counsel can take as many as 14 months (and counting) to get that order issued, and the court doesn't have to let you know it was issued, how would one know when the appeal timeframe lapses? My logic flowchart is in an infinite loop
                Actually, no they can't. They are obligated by their governing body to complete their work in a timely manner. If you are having an issue with the other lawyer you need to express that they need to complete the work in an WITH PREJUDICE letter and give them 10 days to complete the work. If they don't respond in the 10 days or complete the work you then take that letter and send it to the law society of upper Canada. It is not for you to govern their quality of work but the society.

                The society will deal with the matter. In fact, the only thing they really deal with in my humble opinion is complaints about lawyers taking way to long to get their work done.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                  This is a very good question and one that someone like OrleansLawyer would be better at answering.



                  This sounds right because the order would have the reasons for judgement and supporting case law. Appeals are done on an error in law and without the completed written document it would be hard to appeal. Again, better answered by another monkey who bashes keys into the keyboard with rocks.



                  Actually, no they can't. They are obligated by their governing body to complete their work in a timely manner. If you are having an issue with the other lawyer you need to express that they need to complete the work in an WITH PREJUDICE letter and give them 10 days to complete the work. If they don't respond in the 10 days or complete the work you then take that letter and send it to the law society of upper Canada. It is not for you to govern their quality of work but the society.

                  The society will deal with the matter. In fact, the only thing they really deal with in my humble opinion is complaints about lawyers taking way to long to get their work done.

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken
                  Ears must have been ringing over there in lawyer land.

                  I received the order today - via email - and the "Issued Date" is over a month ago. This is exactly what I anticipated he would do.

                  Get it issued, and not send it for 6 weeks to ensure that I can't appeal.

                  So much for obligated to complete in a timely manner.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually in this situation I think you might be able to get leave to appeal. Check it out with the courthouse. Might require you going to court to get permission to appeal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post
                      Actually in this situation I think you might be able to get leave to appeal. Check it out with the courthouse. Might require you going to court to get permission to appeal.
                      I'll call the courthouse tomorrow.

                      This is the problem - so much underhanded stuff has happened - by both the ex and his lawyer - that I'm not even convinced this order is real. How's that for instilling faith in the profession?

                      I'm definitely going to write LSUC about this. In addition to this, he failed to get the order for CS/Custody issued as well. I fought with the clerks at the courthouse for months before I finally got a meeting with MAG and they got the order issued.

                      The lawyer has threatened Small Claims, he has sent some very unprofessional correspondence (insulting and irrelevant - making comments on my "upbringing"), and over the years of dealing with him he has sent me the financial documents of two people - completely unrelated to my case - and not even his clients.

                      After dealing with this guy, I am very unlikely to EVER hire a lawyer if this is the standard they're held to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                        The order I refer to is a costs award against me. I approved the draft 3 times in the last 14 months...
                        Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                        ...
                        I received the order today - via email - and the "Issued Date" is over a month ago. This is exactly what I anticipated he would do.

                        Get it issued, and not send it for 6 weeks to ensure that I can't appeal...
                        I don't understand.

                        Costs were awarded against you (you have to pay), and the judge gave reasoning for this costs order, and you're approving drafts of this order, to get it put into an order, just so you can proceed with appealing it?

                        Aren't you going to get hit with costs again?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dad2bandm View Post
                          I don't understand.

                          Costs were awarded against you (you have to pay), and the judge gave reasoning for this costs order, and you're approving drafts of this order, to get it put into an order, just so you can proceed with appealing it?

                          Aren't you going to get hit with costs again?
                          Without the whole story, it isn't easy to understand.

                          Yes, costs awarded against me.....yet, I prevailed at the motion that costs were awarded for. So, why the costs?

                          You can't appeal the Reasons for Judgment. You can read them and prepare an appeal, but you must appeal the Order, not the reasons.

                          My question was - how can anyone ensure that their appeal timeframe is secure without any timeframe on the delivery of the actual order? The Order was issued 14 months after the Reasons for Judgment, and was not provided to me until it was already 7 weeks old.

                          Whether I plan to appeal or not isn't really the issue. The issue is how would anyone ever be able to appeal anything within 30days if the order takes over a year to get issued and then a further two months to get to you?

                          I am 100% certain that this order was handled this way by opposing counsel because the appeal would likely be successful.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just posted a new thread re appeals then read the comments at the end of this thread, and just realized this:

                            My stbx is appealing the Reasons for Judgment. We don't have an order yet.

                            Where does it state that the Reasons for Judgment can't be appealed?

                            What happens to this Notice of Appeal then?

                            I can't see a lawyer until Friday and I am stumped by all of this.

                            Comment

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