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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:38 AM
aspirin aspirin is offline
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Default Mileage rate for S7 activity expense

Hi all, when calculating expenses for out of town kids activities that fall under Section 7, what rate is typically used when determining car expenses (fuel, wear and tear etc). I am trying to come up with a reasonable rate ($0.xx/km) that we can split the cost on 50/50 when either of us incurs car expenses attending these events.

Also, if these activities require overnight stays is the cost of lodging and meals also typically shared? Would the room rate typically be based off the cheapest room that satisfies the requirements? How do you determine an amount for meals?

Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:46 AM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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I don't think gas is included. My ex pulled that once on me, I paid it that once (it was to a southern US state). After that, it wasn't discussed because it is kinda ridiculous.


For hotel rooms, I generally will pay my share for the ex's room so long as it is reasonable. I don't expect my kid to stay at some Deliverance/Roach Hotel, so staying at the Holiday Inn or something similar is reasonable. My ex and I split it so I have my proportional share of 1/2 of the room. I don't pay for the ex to stay, just the kid.


Food is child support.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:09 PM
aspirin aspirin is offline
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Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
I don't think gas is included. My ex pulled that once on me, I paid it that once (it was to a southern US state). After that, it wasn't discussed because it is kinda ridiculous.


For hotel rooms, I generally will pay my share for the ex's room so long as it is reasonable. I don't expect my kid to stay at some Deliverance/Roach Hotel, so staying at the Holiday Inn or something similar is reasonable. My ex and I split it so I have my proportional share of 1/2 of the room. I don't pay for the ex to stay, just the kid.


Food is child support.
Thanks, this is some good info. I hadn't considered only paying proportional for the kid's share of the hotel room (I was just going to pay proportional for the whole room).


For the mileage, is there any guideline/precedent for it to NOT be considered an S7 expense? Can anyone else share what they do?


Thanks again.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:14 PM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspirin View Post
Thanks, this is some good info. I hadn't considered only paying proportional for the kid's share of the hotel room (I was just going to pay proportional for the whole room).


For the mileage, is there any guideline/precedent for it to NOT be considered an S7 expense? Can anyone else share what they do?


Thanks again.

For the proportional share of half, I don't know if I am right. I just know I was able to logically justify to the ex and she agreed.



Do you plan on going as well? Most the trips I also went, so I had my own expenses and would simply argue that if the ex didn't want the expense, I would do it myself.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:10 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Its a little petty to put your kid in a sport and then demand a % of gas and hotel. If it is that big of a deal, don’t put your kid in a travel sport. I have never heard of any case involving this. Just the cost of the sport.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:41 PM
aspirin aspirin is offline
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Its a little petty to put your kid in a sport and then demand a % of gas and hotel. If it is that big of a deal, don’t put your kid in a travel sport. I have never heard of any case involving this. Just the cost of the sport.

Aye, I totally agree. I'm actually the parent that is being asked to contribute to those expenses. The Ex is requesting $0.58/km for mileage based on CRA business rates. I am trying to be fair and negotiate something closer to actual expense rather than an arbitrary rate.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:49 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Aye, I totally agree. I'm actually the parent that is being asked to contribute to those expenses. The Ex is requesting $0.58/km for mileage based on CRA business rates. I am trying to be fair and negotiate something closer to actual expense rather than an arbitrary rate.


Then I would be telling them that if they feel this expense is more than they can bear you are happy to take the kid yourself to all of their out of town activities.

If the activity is in town and they want to do this you again state you are happy to pick child up and take them to their event.

You can also add that section 7 expenses are considered EXTRA ordinary to the cost of raising a child outside of child support and if they feel that the child support paid is not enough to cover routine trips to activities then you will pick up and drop off kid yourself.

This is bullshit. My partner went through this with his ex claiming she wanted to be reimbursed for mileage and parking to get kids on transportation for their time with him. He told her if it was such a hardship they could take public transit to the terminals and he would pay the $3 for that. She gave up that argument since her “increased” costs were her control issue with the kids spending time with him.

This is definitely an item to push back on. The activity expenses are section 7 because they are normally more money than would be covered by cs.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:11 AM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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Aye, I totally agree. I'm actually the parent that is being asked to contribute to those expenses. The Ex is requesting $0.58/km for mileage based on CRA business rates. I am trying to be fair and negotiate something closer to actual expense rather than an arbitrary rate.

Section 7 expenses are for actual out of pocket costs that are extraordinary in nature. I would advise the ex that you will pay your proportional share of their out of pocket expenses for gas and nothing more. And that you will require evidence of the expense (receipts) prior to payment.


When my ex went south for our kids activity, I looked up the mileage statistics for her car (government or manufacture work) then google mapped the route. I then used the distance divided by the mileage, multiplied by average cost of fuel, divided by my proportional amount, see below:



1000km/8 litres per 100 km x $1.25litre = $100 divided by 50% (my proportional amount) = $50



The only reason I did that was she was threatening to not go otherwise and it was important to our kid. I agreed for the one time, but said going forward I would only pay my proportional share for actual out-of-pocket expenses.


The idea that your ex is expecting a business rate is absurd. This is not a business, and one can reasonably expect to put wear and tear on ones car for the benefit of their children.


But I would simply state to the ex that you will reimburse them for actual out of pocket expenses. That a business mileage rate is not reasonable or provided for under the s.7 of the legislation.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:43 AM
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This is the first I have ever heard of somebody claiming mileage as an S7 expense.

To use a phrase that used to be thrown around on this forum but has since lost it's lustre, I would tell the ex to go pound sand. Is there any actual case law of somebody being ordered to pay mileage? I have never come across such a case.
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