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LF32 "need to see daughter" pt.2

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  • Not disclosing...LOL....why do you think he isn't even acknowledging the drug test...lmao.

    I see too things that conflict with his duties to the court

    1) he threatened you on that E-mail thread

    2) he rejected a Form 20 for disclosure and later Affadavit of Doc's

    He's putting up a smokescreen for your ex until she gets settled

    thats why I asked you to do the 9 am thingy (for the long drive)

    and ask for additional access for musems (things that are good for D3 and you)....your ex can get settled by signing D3 up for good things like swimming but you have been denied "good things for D3

    and you still don't know if you were emergency contact for baby sitter or who it was
    Last edited by MrToronto; 06-30-2014, 03:06 PM.

    Comment


    • from a quoted case from Great Britian used here by our court

      The advocate] has a duty to the court which is paramount. It is a
      mistake to suppose that he is the mouthpiece of his client to say
      what he wants: or his tool to do what he directs. He is none of
      these things. He owes allegiance to a higher cause. It is the cause
      of truth and justice. He must not consciously mis-state [sic] the
      facts. He must not knowingly conceal the truth…He must produce
      all the relevant authorities, even those that are against him. He
      must see that his client discloses, if ordered, the relevant
      documents, even those that are fatal to his case. He must
      disregard the most specific instructions of his client, if they conflict
      with his duty to the court. The code which requires a barrister to
      do all this is not a code of law. It is a code of honour. If he breaks
      it, he is offending against the rules of the profession and is subject
      to its discipline.

      And a little more (australia)

      ii) The duty not to abuse the court process
      Day to day practical implications for a barrister arising under this aspect of the duty are many. But to mention a few examples, I will note:

      (a) Allegations of serious misconduct:
      The obligation to exercise great care before making allegations of serious misconduct against others. At page 85,I observed of this aspect of the duty if the client insists that such unsubstantiated allegations be made, it is counsel's duty to decline to carry out those instructions or to withdraw from the case..

      Just Honor and Duty for Lawyer stuff.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
        Not disclosing...LOL....why do you think he isn't even acknowledging the drug test...lmao.

        I see too things that conflict with his duties to the court

        1) he threatened you on that E-mail thread

        2) he rejected a Form 20 for disclosure and later Affadavit of Doc's

        He's putting up a smokescreen for your ex until she gets settled

        thats why I asked you to do the 9 am thingy (for the long drive)

        and ask for additional access for musems (things that are good for D3 and you)....your ex can get settled by signing D3 up for good things like swimming but you have been denied "good things for D3

        and you still don't know if you were emergency contact for baby sitter or who it was
        I will modify that letter I'm going to send (I'm asking 9-5) to include our trip to dinosaur museum. He will say no..12-3. I will say 9-12.

        Regarding the email threat, as soon as he falsely accused me of falsifying evidence and threatened criminal I thought to myself...he just screwed up big. I hope I'm right.


        Everything the supervisors heard from ex is golden. Will ex not just say supervisors lying? "What festival? What babysitter?", etc.


        Love the honor/duty stuff. We all know hes a piece of work. Now just have to convince the judge. And ive been told judges don't like ppl going into rulebooks, etc. Irritates them. So have to find out the most optimal way to apply his disobedience to his profession
        Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-30-2014, 03:26 PM.

        Comment


        • Whichever way you decide to proceed (with/without lawyer) I think it is coming close to the time when you have to put it in writing that your daughter should be returned to her residence. Mother voluntarily left the matrimonial home but that does not give her the right to remove the child - only the court may do that. Mother is consistently uncooperative in working towards any sort of shared custody arrangement. Child has a right to have both mother and father and extended relatives (from both families in her life).

          I am quite frankly taken back that you have to grovel for a few hours visitation each week. It is simply outrageous to me. I think you should be demanding some sort of assurance that your child is being properly cared for as you cannot ascertain this for yourself as you have no idea where your child is sleeping at night. If you are fearful that the mother will abscond with the child out of province then is this not a substantive reason to obtain temporary custody of the child?

          When is your next court appearance with a judge?

          Comment


          • Maybe just include a short sentence in your letter to the effect

            "I would like to remind you that as an Officer of the Court you are bound by the rules of professional conduct to disclose all documentation relevant to the outcome of this case - even if it is detrimental to your client's position."

            Comment


            • I think Arabian, it just makes it clearer for a Judge that the reason he's forced to grovel is that the ex tookoff (again) and 3 hours is all she can manage being so far away

              The other question is whether LF32 is being duped into beliving the ex is still in town. SO best not to guess but to directly ask the lawyer...see if it's ignored....The lawyer should have no problem answering yes to that simple question.

              Remember LF32 you want the schedule/address for D3's swimming classes so you can attend with your supervisor

              Arabian I think the lawyer already knows the case is up for dismissal just on non disclousre alone, thats just another assumption of course.

              The CC judge wasn't happy with no supporting material at all for the allegations...that is why Costs are reserved...lawyer knows that

              Still waitng to see if LF32's ex tries to create an incident. The holy grial as a reason to feel threatened to justify taking off (already has?) again
              Last edited by MrToronto; 06-30-2014, 03:53 PM.

              Comment


              • Part of the reason to have a "dated" request to lawyer for confirmation the ex is still maintianing a residence in town. Is for the future

                It's a simple question but it has a lot of signifigance later if it's proved ex left town in May or June and the lawyer says as of July she still resides there.

                One Scenario is ...If the lawyer is "gone" later in this matter the ex will sell him out as a liar and told her to say things like she lived in city.

                The lawyer knows what the ex did to LF32, she'll certainly do to him and blame him for telling her to do stuff.

                Once the lawyer bails the access stops and a motion for "interim sole" can be launched (without her).

                but thats only for consideration of LF32. Who's preparing a Motion for increased interim access in good faith thinking the ex is in town and going to do it.

                So the more closer LF32 gets to their crappy plan the more likely the lawyer gets uncomfortable carrying it out and skitters away like a cockroach so LF32 can have a clear picture on how to proceed
                Last edited by MrToronto; 06-30-2014, 04:31 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                  Part of the reason to have a "dated" request to lawyer for confirmation the ex is still maintianing a residence in town. Is for the future

                  It's a simple question but it has a lot of signifigance later if it's proved ex left town in May or June and the lawyer says as of July she still resides there.

                  One Scenario is ...If the lawyer is "gone" later in this matter the ex will sell him out as a liar and told her to say things like she lived in city.

                  The lawyer knows what the ex did to LF32, she'll certainly do to him and blame him for telling her to do stuff.

                  Once the lawyer bails the access stops and a motion for "interim sole" can be launched (without her).

                  but thats only for consideration of LF32. Who's preparing a Motion for increased interim access in good faith thinking the ex is in town and going to do it.

                  So the more closer LF32 gets to their crappy plan the more likely the lawyer gets uncomfortable carrying it out and skitters away like a cockroach so LF32 can have a clear picture on how to proceed
                  Mr. T.
                  I can add the question regarding her residence in this next e-mail as well.

                  MsLF32 was able to get to the meeting spot fairly quickly when supervisor called her. Said she just had to get D3 changed and she was there in an hour. This tells me a) she still has a place here...b) she knew the plan, knew supervisor would call and stayed nearby. My postulation is that she spends 1-3 days max in this city and the rest in the other getting everything set up. Is she planning the move? YES. Not a doubut in my mind. I don't think she even tells lawyer this. I think shes just "unavailable" a lot with him. Like my former lawyer said " her lawyer probably cant locate her".

                  July 1st moving day. Her plan...to keep the 3 hour thing....wait...now she proposes 1 hour on thursdays. (That really is disgusting - tell me a judge won't despise that)). She has a friend from mtl with a car. I bet my bottom dollar shes outta here jult 1st.

                  I need to make some moves. But the "right" ones. I have some ideas percolating. You're all helping.
                  Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-30-2014, 06:20 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Well to me if the Lawyer was doing his good faith duty, you'd have had disclosure so the issue's could be narrowed to settle without Trial.

                    Common sense dictates if the ex was going to live in the your city, it's a no brainer for her to start settling matters. (you'd think)

                    It's also a no brainer to increase access and remove supervised. (nope) if the ex was interested in settling (she isn't)

                    Only one guy has the "malicious" thinking process over this matter, that's why he knows exactly what's she's doing (puppet master)

                    That big fat cow of an ex's mother is on the phone to her daughter every hour trying to get her to move to the other province and will be successful. When your ex listens to her mother rather than the lawyer you will win this

                    I don't know all the facts why you ex got to the spot quickly...maybe she is in town...or maybe she was ready to stand at the meeting spot to say she was there and you weren't (pre-prepared)...and as luck would have you cooled down and did the hour... but bad luck she couldn't manage extra time because the baby sitter took precedent over you

                    you were set up that day...buddy boy...you think the lawyer is going to stand on at hortons to witness your a no show

                    Comment


                    • Yep. Ex's mother lost it the second we moved provinces. She blew up on ex when told about pregnancy. This is when ex became most depressed. I had to talk to her mom because wasnt good for baby in belly to be crying and upset.

                      I have an e-mail from her mom saying "I know I didnt react well to the pregnancy...but it wasnt about the baby."
                      I won't get in to it but my whole family and I had to block her. She was just getting nasty. She was definitely sick of seeing pics of D3 and my family here in ontario, thats for sure. So now shes smiling. D3 can't even travel to see her extended family . Nor enough time. They made sure of it.

                      So is her mom coaching her to move there? yes. Does she have an overwhelming power over ex? Yes. And was very emotionally abusive towards her. 3 week silent treatment while pregnant. Much more. She will play a large role in exs decision making throughout this.

                      The games need to stop now. D3 is human...not ammo for past jealousy and vengence.
                      Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-30-2014, 07:52 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                        I think the ex knew if she made allegations she'd get "short term" housing and a free lawyer.

                        I think she was very open and frank with the LAO lawyer that she was taking off to another province

                        The lawyer is NOT disclosing the documents because he doesn't want to defend them and be responsible for them "later", not only because the EVIDENCE is weak but to enable "removing himself from the matter cleanly".

                        ...after his client goes against "his wishes" (pre-planned) and takes off.

                        It's only a matter of time before the ex won't be able to find a car to go to LF32's town for the 3 hour access.

                        Of course the motivation to even make a long drive for "3 hour access" will be a factor.

                        Luckily for LF32 the Court Process is already started where he lives, so the ex can run but can't hide and if she doesn't appear in Court, LF32 can do Motions without her.

                        FRO needs her address
                        OCL needs her address
                        Settlement Conference upcoming
                        ..other Conference (TMC)
                        Trial
                        and ACCESS is Consent Ordered

                        anyways I think everything the ex and lawyer have done was a bluff to this point, but LF32 has made it a longer grind for them, his ex has zero intention of sitting in low income housing (3 months probably most she could stand).

                        I was thinking sublte reminders LF32 of lawyers duty to the court would be a nice ...written nicely...

                        As Ms So-So lawyer please confirm her residence in (city) that her address hasn't changed.
                        A tually FRO does not need an address, just a bank account details. They have never asked for an adress from my daughter, since she moved from my home to her own in town.

                        Comment


                        • Understandable feelings, a lot of us had them...have to put them aside, and know D3 is okay, and doesn't realize what is happening

                          Best to get this done as quickly as possible before she's old enough to understand.

                          (that pm) I sent made it loud and clear it was the mother that was out to destroy the relationship...I was hoping you had some backup doc's and kept the facebook stuff .....and you thought I forgot about that old cow...lmao

                          the longer this goes with no movement of the allegations the more likely they were false.

                          When they are found false. She then will be found to use allegations to obtain custody.

                          There are a lot of benefits to being patient. (including a clear head)

                          1) Time to go after the lawyers "professionalism" NICELY

                          2) work on that OCL and see when the interviews can be had (pretend to lawyer you've been in contact with OCL and his name is) so as to crimp the time the ex has to get settled.

                          3) get the request for disclosure in (that's part of lawyer professionalism) not on disclosure but....I still haven't received your affidavit of docs...or I note the form 20 expired on (date) are you going to reply.....stuff like that

                          4) Reminders like ...Our Family Wizard was offered by me as a means for parties to communicate (I would pay both subscriptions) it's a wonderful tool both parties can share while doing interim access in (city)

                          or

                          For my records please send me a most recent copy your clients Ontario Works check (for July) and also a copy of your clients lease, to establish she is in the city, please

                          AND REMEMBER IN YOUR LETTERS "CUSTODY GOES TO THE PARENT THAT ENCOURAGES ACCESS" so say a lot of WE stuff ...benefits for D3 ...were your can (for later

                          Beachnanna the address will be in support deduction orders and court documents.....if your daughter doesn't keep fro undated on change of address it's her bizz.....there are forms FRO sends for support recipients to fill out (not many though) like consent to change support needs 2 sign offs
                          Last edited by MrToronto; 06-30-2014, 09:11 PM.

                          Comment


                          • I was thinking the same thing. Emergency shelter, denying father access, etc but refuse to disclose severity despite many attempts?
                            Under rule 19 I stipulated in the email that if I didnt have his aff. Of doc's in the 10 days that the material would basically be stricken (something like that - referred to rule). Wouldnt it benice if judge read that and agreed? He asked for FORM 20, you tried to convince a self repper he made a mistake. He asked for affidavit of docs, you said sure, if you give me yours. He did....you did not. Supervisions going well without issue so you decreased to 1 hour visits? You accuse and threaten criminal charges over falsifying evidence... I mean this lawyer will get blasted with the judge right?

                            Ex didnt use facebook much. Many texts that would have been great. She took care of them though.


                            I still think wating for ocl will be his ace card for now

                            I'll keep on reiterating the nondisclosure thing and mentioning the "we" stuff.

                            His gameplan...waiting for ocl to pass time. = status quo. He thinks that his ace card. I spoke with the ocl person who got our case and she was asking for some file # I looked on every ocl related document. No file# (not court file). So I'll have to call back and let her know.
                            Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-30-2014, 09:33 PM.

                            Comment


                            • I was thinking the same thing. Emergency shelter, denying father access, etc but refuse to disclose severity despite many attempts?
                              Under rule 19 I stipulated in the email that if I didnt have his aff. Of doc's in the 10 days that the material would basically be stricken (something like that - referred to rule). Wouldnt it benice if judge read that and agreed? He asked for FORM 20, you tried to convince a self repper he made a mistake. He asked for affidavit of docs, you said sure, if you give me yours. He did....you did not. Supervisions going well without issue so you decreased to 1 hour visits? You accuse and threaten criminal charges over falsifying evidence... I mean this lawyer will get blasted with the judge right?

                              Ex didnt use facebook much. Many texts that would have been great. She took care of them though.

                              Comment


                              • don't over think this....lawyers wrong for non disclosure.....it's a fact you need disclosure it's a fact for the Court.

                                Deal with one game at a time....don't jump to a judge.....prepare things for a judge.....but don't care what a judge will think it's your preparation for the judge...in this

                                The lawyer knows the rules....your waking up too the rules....but it's a game that winds up in front of a judge that makes the ultimate decision over this. and you look great for that

                                They are NOT letting access go beyond 3 hours and supervised...THATS WRONG

                                They are not disclosing THAT's WRONG

                                BUT PROVE IT.....that's the letter's ....probability stuff...your building a case...(a good one) for this without disclosure.

                                Your letters and only yours will say access by both parties...there's don't

                                the judge told you custody is without prejudice.

                                your the only one saying we will do custody and wizard is good for us

                                They have one plan (or nothing) SOLE with you excluded. There is no WE

                                that kills there position

                                your too much in a hurry (I agree) but nothing looks bad on you , this is a horrible process,

                                The games within games have to be played with the eye on Court and a judge

                                The other party is falling apart....because of time....don't you it's all business

                                start getting the addresses where the ex will hide in the other province...soon your going to be going there with a court order to get D3 with the cops.

                                you got access....keep reminding yourself
                                they look terrible....keep reminding yourself
                                I know the game within a game....keep reminding yourself
                                I want to look best for a Judge....keep doing
                                I can do this

                                I told you once I was going to fight and never quit until I won...and you will and your going to be tougher at the end....you did this while being mentally abused by a sick ex (monster)...a pathetic lawyer both using your child.

                                they'll make you question every step you take to defeat you, you remember this war, when you win it, a fool forgets this misery
                                Last edited by MrToronto; 06-30-2014, 10:42 PM.

                                Comment

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