Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-07-2019, 06:06 PM
doug10 doug10 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
doug10 is on a distinguished road
Default Retro back pay

Stumbled on this site and overwhelmed by all the help and knowledge.

I have a situation, looking for any insight or advice with retro back pay that I was served my my daughters mother.

Long story short..... We had a very friendly and respectful relationship and a verbal agreement in place for access and support for our child that ended July 2018. I asked for more access and to have the child over nights when she was away out of the country. We have NEVER exchanged financial and she has never asked for me to up date and pay the child support guideline amount.

I have never missed a payment as FRO takes each pay and always pay any expense asked for my daughter. We have a court order from 2012. I make a lot more money since then.

I was servered by her lawyer asking for back pay to 2012 ?

Is she entitled to the back pay if she has never asked and can not show the courts any documents proving this.

I know the 3 year tax rule but my opinion is she is not entitled to any back pay. Itís like she is holding me hostage, sheís only demanding the money because I demanded to have my daughter more.

Any help is appreciated.

Cheers !
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:03 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,827
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Technically you are supposed to exchange financial information annually regardless of what your agreement says.

Calculate how much you should have been paying for the last three years.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:14 PM
doug10 doug10 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
doug10 is on a distinguished road
Default

If our agreement says that we are to exchange to each other and it has never happened because of our respect for one another not because I refuse or hiding, do you feel as I do, the judge will ask, why now ?? Why all the sudden after 6 years are you asking for back pay ??

Iíve lawyered up and have my common law partner as a witness to the amount of access time my daughter was with me.

Worst case, I pay the $$$ itís going to cost and get my shared custody in a court order and move on.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:43 PM
StillPaying StillPaying is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 119
StillPaying is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug10 View Post
If our agreement says that we are to exchange to each other and it has never happened because of our respect for one another not because I refuse or hiding...
Either your income never went up so nothing should have changed, or you were hiding it. I believe they can go back 3 years before they first asked for it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:14 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,827
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

A) its PARENTING time not access time and regardless of how much time she was with you, you donít have an order for off set which means the time is irrelevant.

B) regardless of her not asking for the update, your income increased and if it was significant you should have updated her. You may get away with playing dumb that your agreement had an end date of July therefore you were going to update then but the likelihood of that flying with a judge is low.

You have two separate issues here: parenting time and support. If she filed a motion to update child support then your counter motion should be to pay your retro cs and increase time with your child. Your argument is that you have been increasing time, there are no issues with her being with you and you feel a move toward 50/50 offset is IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD.

Figure out how much you should have been paying monthly and keep that number on your negotiation list. You WILL have to pay retro, its simply a question of how much.

Lawyering up means nothing. Stop throwing that around like its going to protect you. Your ex was allowed to request an update to cs especially if your income has increased significantly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:03 AM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,773
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug10 View Post
We have NEVER exchanged financial and she has never asked for me to up date and pay the child support guideline amount... I make a lot more money since then.
The onus is on the payor to keep the recipient informed of changes in income. The idea is that while you are in a great position to know that your income has increased, your ex is in a much less privileged position when it comes to finding out that information.

If you guys had exchanged tax returns and she still didn't ask for the increase, that might be a reasonable argument, because you were not hiding your income. In this case though, you were certainly hiding your income, no matter how you try to spin it.

Financial disclosure is an ongoing obligation for you, and you failed to live up to that obligation.

Quote:
Is she entitled to the back pay if she has never asked and can not show the courts any documents proving this.
You have broken the rules, that means the court is not going to give you much slack. She is probably almost guaranteed the 3 years of back pay. Whether it goes past that will hinge upon her explanation as to why she didn't ask you for your financial information. Expect her to give some variation of "I was afraid of what he would do"

Quote:
I know the 3 year tax rule but my opinion is she is not entitled to any back pay. Itís like she is holding me hostage, sheís only demanding the money because I demanded to have my daughter more.
Undoubtedly that is exactly the reason she is asking for the back pay. If you kick, you should expect to get kicked back.

I think you are going to have to cave on the CS back pay. Offer 3 years of it, pay it immediately before trial if you can, and make the trial be focused on getting equal time with your daughter. Your CS behaviour looks super shady, and you don't want that in front of the judge if you can help it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:06 AM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,773
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillPaying View Post
Either your income never went up so nothing should have changed, or you were hiding it. I believe they can go back 3 years before they first asked for it.
It is even worse, the 3 years is only if the payor was not doing anything wrong. If there has been deliberate misbehaviour on the part of the payor, then they can go back further than 3 years.

Doug was hiding his income, the courts are not going to like that at all. He could easily end up on the hook for the entire arrears.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2019, 10:17 AM
StillPaying StillPaying is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 119
StillPaying is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Once the court determines that a retroactive child support award should be ordered, the award should as a general rule be retroactive to the date of effective notice by the recipient parent that child support should be paid or increased, but to no more than three years in the past. Effective notice does not require the recipient parent to take legal action; all that is required is that the topic be broached. Once that has occurred, the payor parent can no longer assume that the status quo is fair. However, where the payor parent has engaged in blameworthy conduct, the date when the circumstances changed materially will be the presumptive start date of the award.
http://canlii.ca/t/1p0tv
I think you're right. It'll come down to what the judge views as "blameworthy".

Is it that he didn't notify ex of his substantial increase in income, or would it be if he lied, refused to provide, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:55 PM
denbigh denbigh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 288
denbigh is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
we are to exchange to each other and it has never happened because of our respect for one another
really? is that why you never gave your updated income? because you respect her?
just listen to how that sounds. 100% unbelievable

It sounds to me, no one did anything because no one wanted to rock the boat, she didnt want to give up parenting time, and you didnt want to give up money. That is how I would interpret it. Well now the boat is rocking. Best to start doing what most people do, which is exchange every year and pay the amount of child support you were supposed to pay.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:26 PM
doug10 doug10 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
doug10 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you for taking the time and reading.

My opologies if thatís how you feel or think on it.

Like I said at the end. Iíve lawyered up. Our order now is from 2009 when the child was 3. As of 2014 to July of 2018, the child was spending time equally with each parent. We never followed the court order and there was never any need as we both..... Ready for it. RESPECTED EACH OTHER AND PUT THE CHILDS BEST INTERESTS BEFORE OUR OWN! lol

I have NEVER missed a support payment, I would go above and beyond any extra expenses for the child.

Itís pathetic how if the mother of a child wants to play the ď power and control ď the first thing they do, is ask for more money ! Lol

How about if the mother and her husband of 12 years, who live in a 500 000 house travel every other month, have all the sudden found financial difficulties and want more money on top of the support they already receive just ask the father if he would like to have 50 50 ?!? Hmmmmm. Weird, how they never offer that isnít it. lol..... wonder why ??


My daughter, is the one that suffers, her mother and I will spend thousands fighting. Whata I do !?? Say fine, hereís your money and ya, itís ok, I donít need more time with my child. Come on ?

The mother wants more money because the childís father has demanded the child stay with him while Ē travel two ď as Iíve nicked named them, travel all over the planet. It all sucks BUT it should NEVER be about money !! How about equal rights and money is never an issue.

Why do I need to go to a judge and ask for this ? Why are mothers of children so fast at demanding and threatening Iíll take your money !!

Wait..... I remember now, because thatís how the family court law is. Pathetic. 1971 BS.



Who, in their right mind wants to drag their child into a tug of war and spend thousands when this money could go to the childís future!?? Fathers that love their children unconditionally and mothers who love ď power and control ď and as soon as the lawyer tells them how much money they can clean out the father for, that takes to priority. Joke but Godís honest truth.

Done ranting, probably shouldnít have as I did not proof read lol


I have to fight for my access, if I do not, the mother has enforced the 2009 order. My access is very limited as the child was 3 when it was finalized.

The mother threatens me, about money !?? lol. She can have all she wants, as soon as she proves to the court that the child from 2014 was not in my care at least 40% of the time.



Hopefully this gives you a better idea. Respect lol ... Maybe you should in light me on what your view of respect is!??? Iím lost on that comment. Sorry.


Iíll up date this thread as it proceeds. Court starts feb 2.





m
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ex Wife wants the kids back J_Kitchener2010 Divorce & Family Law 23 09-27-2010 09:05 PM
Want my deposit back elizabeth1962 Common Law Issues 50 05-25-2010 10:22 PM
Back Child Support myminpins Divorce & Family Law 7 12-10-2009 11:24 PM
Chances of a Judge agreeing to go back to original agreement canniiee Divorce & Family Law 10 10-20-2009 02:37 PM
Going back to school twiceseparated Divorce & Family Law 4 02-10-2007 08:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 PM.