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  • Changing Court Order- too soon?

    Hi Everyone,

    Greatly appreciate the insight and advice received in this forum, it is truly invaluable to speak with people who have gone through similar situations. Its funny how many of us thought that all would be peachy in separation and divorce, but your ex's true colours seem to shine bright when in court!

    We have a fairly fresh Court Order seeing a graduation to 50/50 parenting of 2 kids. The parenting time leading to 50/50 is absolutely terrible due to my ex being the worst person my lawyer ever had to negotiate with. No logic to arguments, and simply refused to give an inch and dragged her heels the whole way. Being at the end of my financial rope, I signed something I wasn't too pleased with but to ensure I locked in 50/50, whereby the road to 50/50 sucks in terms of parenting time. To be honest I was tapped financially and had to stop the litigation and continuing with the cycle of useless settlement conferences for us to be told the same thing over and over. It'll get better and I am doing my best to be patient----it really does suck to have minimal access to kids in their infancy. It is pure selfishness on her part in my view.

    I fully understand that to change a Court Order, you need to demonstrate a material change in circumstance. Which the standard to do is VERY high, and most self-reps don't know what it means. It is without a doubt that my ex will try to weasel out of 50/50 as the date approaches, with nonsensical arguments on why the kids prefer her place or something. Or how things worked "fine" until leading to the 50/50 date....

    However, is there the possibility to ask her to provide me with a little more parenting time during the graduation period to 50/50? Perhaps 2 extra dinner nights per month? Also, there are some housekeeping things that were overlooked in the Court Order, such as how we accidentally forgot to account for a few stat holidays. I certainly don't want to be appearing as high conflict, as I am sure she is currently working on her case to weasel out of 50/50 and is gathering any and all ammunition she can for her eventual case, but is there any harm in politely asking for a bit more parenting time even though we are pretty fresh into a court order? Or change court order to add stuff that has been missed?

  • #2
    You forgot to consider the additional complexity that your order was made on CONSENT. That adds another level of challenge that is near impossible to overcome.

    You are best to let sleeping dogs lie and follow the agreement made on CONSENT.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is there any point in even asking? I know on her end she HATES that it will be 50/50, and if I know her well, know that she is building her case and doing her research behind the scenes to back out of 50/50, claiming the status quo leading to 50/50 worked best so it’s best not to get to 50/50. I am weary of picturing myself as high conflict by asking for alterations so soon.

      I’m also weary of giving her the impression that the Order can be easily opened up. She may agree to open the agreement to give me a little extra parenting time this year where she shows cooperation, but she may very well ask for my cooperation in opening the agreement as 50/50 approaches where she claims parenting is fine at 65/35.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would say it’s not a great idea to start asking for changes so soon. You signed the order on consent and now have buyers remorse. You claim she is plotting how to not follow the order but currently you are doing the same. I’m not saying the current order is or isn’t good/bad, just that you consented to it and there is a provision to move to 50/50.

        I wouldn’t ask for more structured time, just the occasional extra time for important events.

        Comment


        • #5
          So what if your ex doesnt like 50/50. So what if you think she won’t agree. None of this matters. You are trying to predict the future and make a decision in advance. You reached an agreement on consent and you are going to go back to court to try to change it because you THINK she is going to ignore the agreement? You are being ridiculous. Let it go and enjoy your time leading up to 50:50.

          Your threads demonstrate you really need to step away from this stuff and learn to live without court or divorce or legalities or opinions on society. Get a therapist and move on with your life. You’ve been so primed for battle that you don’t know how to live without conflict. Get a hobby that doesn’t involve this forum and get over it.

          Seriously. You’re not healthy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            So what if your ex doesnt like 50/50. So what if you think she won’t agree. None of this matters. You are trying to predict the future and make a decision in advance. You reached an agreement on consent and you are going to go back to court to try to change it because you THINK she is going to ignore the agreement? You are being ridiculous. Let it go and enjoy your time leading up to 50:50.

            Your threads demonstrate you really need to step away from this stuff and learn to live without court or divorce or legalities or opinions on society. Get a therapist and move on with your life. You’ve been so primed for battle that you don’t know how to live without conflict. Get a hobby that doesn’t involve this forum and get over it.

            Seriously. You’re not healthy.
            You advice is pragmatic and often very relevant.
            You have been in the trenches. It is tough on everyone.
            I expect many people suffer from trauma form the family law cesspool and how ineffective it is in truly helping.
            Personally I am praying for that day when these thoughts are not swirling in my head almost every waking moment,
            I found this forum late in my journey and I find it therapeutic.
            I also find some posters are pretty harsh where empathy would go a long way.
            Res Ipsa Loquitur.
            Namaste.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              So what if your ex doesnt like 50/50. So what if you think she won’t agree. None of this matters. You are trying to predict the future and make a decision in advance. You reached an agreement on consent and you are going to go back to court to try to change it because you THINK she is going to ignore the agreement? You are being ridiculous. Let it go and enjoy your time leading up to 50:50.

              Your threads demonstrate you really need to step away from this stuff and learn to live without court or divorce or legalities or opinions on society. Get a therapist and move on with your life. You’ve been so primed for battle that you don’t know how to live without conflict. Get a hobby that doesn’t involve this forum and get over it.

              Seriously. You’re not healthy.
              I am perfectly healthy, thank you. My threads ask relevant questions that are valid to my case. In reading the threads, I know I am not alone. My situation may be very different than yours. Perhaps the only similarity is that we both went to court. Am I worried she will try to weasel out of 50/50? Damn straight I am! My ex went to great lengths to try to keep me out of kids lives. Lies, allegations, police, family, you name it. Is it clear she has no problem if the kids were to only see me EOW? Yup! Cried in court holding up her case law.

              Do not ever say I am not healthy. You do not know me. I may have appreciated your advice in the past, but now see you are simply a jerk towards men who are trying to protect themselves from Round 2, and 3, etc. Some of us know our exes will bring us back, and won’t “get it” till they lose custody altogether.

              Comment


              • #8
                The thing is, you can neither really predict what the ex will do, nor control the situation to get them to comply. I have been through the ringer myself. We actually banged out a parenting agreement in 2014. He immediately acted that it did not exist unless it was to his benefit. I was awarded sole custody at birth. One of the early court orders (rightfully) said to be reviewed when the children turned 5 (twins). That time rolled around, and I literally handed him 50-50 on a platter. Nope, he wanted his day in court to prove "how horrible" I am. It did not go well for him in that regard, I still agreed to shared, we banged out Minutes of Settlement in September. He has not approved the MOS, however, every paragraph that "gives" him something is fully enforceable (according to him). Every paragraph that "gives" me something falls under "we do not have an actual court order yet, therefore, you (I) have no leg to stand on" and does what he wants.

                We now have to go back to court in order to have the MOS made into a court order. Am I fully aware that he thinks NONE of it will apply to him, absolutely! Do I want to change the whole damn thing to prevent his antics from happening, absolutely! But the unfortunate reality is that I can't.

                Dealing with a high conflict ex sucks balls. If your order was made on consent, there's really not much you can do to have it changed right now. Focus on yourself and your children. Continuing to focus on your ex and what she may or may not do does nothing more than drive you insane and raise your blood pressure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
                  Do not ever say I am not healthy. You do not know me. I may have appreciated your advice in the past, but now see you are simply a jerk towards men who are trying to protect themselves from Round 2, and 3, etc. Some of us know our exes will bring us back, and won’t “get it” till they lose custody altogether.


                  Your ex is not going to lose custody and you are hanging onto things you shouldn’t. You are not healthy. You have been through a fight and now don’t know how to separate yourself from that fight. You are looking at society and roles in media now to discuss and enmesh yourself in. You are also girding for a battle that may never come. You can call me whatever name you want but the bottom line is you need to walk away from dwelling on this and letting it consume you. Otherwise you are going to alienate people around you and people who care about you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    High conflict exes are a scourge.
                    And if you cannot disengage from that emotional conflict it becomes even more toxic.
                    I found some great material on divorcing a narcissist and it has helped.
                    If you are not a narcissist yourself it is so hard to comprehend how they think, and so hard to stop thinking they will change.
                    They will never ever ever change. No agreement, court, therapist or drug will change them.
                    Once I accepted this the whole landscape changed.
                    Boundaries become essential.
                    Absolutely no tolerance for allowing the children in the crossfire.
                    I bit my tongue so hard it beld some days, and may days I just did what I really thought was best for the children.
                    I have an amazing relationship with each of my kids. They are resilient and they are old enough to see through the mud. In one filing my ex said (with implied anger) that my kids think I am amazing (because I manipulate them of course). She actually wrote that I tried to charm the judge (because the judge agreed with pretty much everything I had to say). She cannot see that having kids think you are great is a good thing.
                    But you CANNOT change someone that has anger in their heart. And of course they are fodder for lawyers that are in no way advocating for children.
                    Officer of the court? What a joke.
                    Self care is essential! I love the advice rockscan writes (even if it is a bit harsh to some).
                    You have to be strong and allowing toxic garbage into your mind and heart is just that, toxic.
                    Blessing everyone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So this thread has veered completely in the wrong direction, including nasty comments from an individual. Yes, it is possible for mothers to lose custody, and my case was one of those extreme circumstances.

                      So from those who have answered respectfully (and I thank you for your insight) it was indicated its best not to illicit change, where the animosity level is still high and fresh. Two lawyers who I have consulted with said “it doesn’t hurt to ask, and keep the documentation of her rejecting the request for when you need it”. But then again, lawyers have always steered us in the right direction, right? They likely only want conflict as conflict becomes clients. Perhaps best ammo for me (when she tries to weasel out of 50/50) is to say I followed Court Order to a tee. Knowing my ex, she will try to find a way to use the minimal time I’ve had leading to 50/50 to her advantage in arguments in her favour out of 50/50.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You really need to get a grip on your bitterness. You willingly entered into a consent order which includes a date for 50/50. Stop being angry at the situation and focus on enjoying the kids. You may think you don’t show your feelings for your ex to your kids, but the level of animosity you show here makes that seem unlikely.

                        Relax, enjoy your kids and look forward to the 50/50 start date. Don’t ruin the time you have now because you regret the deal you willingly signed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          You forgot to consider the additional complexity that your order was made on CONSENT. That adds another level of challenge that is near impossible to overcome.

                          You are best to let sleeping dogs lie and follow the agreement made on CONSENT.
                          I agree with Tayken, consent orders are very hard to over come. The expectation is that the parties who know the children and situation in intiment detail are expected to take into account changes in the children's lives until they are no longer dependant.

                          You have a high bar to try and change it.
                          Focus on the material changes that would not have been for seeable.
                          If there aren't any then as Tayken says let sleeping dogs lie.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
                            The expectation is that the parties who know the children and situation in intiment detail are expected to take into account changes in the children's lives until they are no longer dependant.
                            Fair enough about comments regarding consent orders. However, the comment regarding the parties knowing the children and being “drivers of the bus” is going to be problematic. It’s problematic when you have an ex who doesn’t get that kids should have relationship with dad, understand maximum contact principle, and quite simply grossly wanted kids to herself and relegate dad to visitor status. All judges and OCL recommended 50/50 right away. I could not afford trial, so agreed to 50/50 in 2 years, recognizing I wouldn’t get a trial (4-5 day) for another 1-1.5 years. Despite what all judges have said leading up to the final settlement conference, the last judge (before we settled) was SUPER gentle, and said that “although OCL recommended 50/50 right away, you 2 parents know what’s best for kids and you 2 are in the best seat to figure what’s best for kids”.

                            I can be patient and await the 2 years, slowly graduating to 50/50. But those comments by the judge just resonated with her and have been engrained into my ex’s head who is adamant that the kids should only have 1 home, and that 2 homes is no good and “confusing” and “unstable”. We live 5 minutes away from one another and it’s planned that 50/50 be week on/off. She will MOST DEFINITELY try to weasel out of 50/50 when the time comes arguing:
                            1) The kids have had all this upfront time at moms which established a status quo for so long that worked just fine
                            2) As parents, we know what’s best for kids and they prefer stability of only 1 roof
                            3) Everything was fine when it was the time “leading up to 50/50” so no need to change from that. Kids thrives under that arrangement.
                            4) it’s been so long that the kids lived with 1 roof, and 50/50 isn’t working, so go back to the way it used to be.

                            Although I appreciate we are in the drivers seat, it’s difficult when the other parent has an agenda and resents eventual 50/50. In the meantime to 50/50, my parenting time is awful. Agree that given the high conflict, it’s best to not poke at opening the agreement made on consent, even if neither of us agree with it. I dislike the parenting time leading up to 50/50, she despises the outcome of 50/50. I have a feeling I’ll be in court for next 15 years, not the way to live peacefully.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you have an agreement that states you will be moving to 50 50 and it's in detail, dont sweat it. Live your life and enjoy the time now you have with your kids.
                              When the switch comes and your ex tries to stop it, the onus is on HER to prove why it's not in the kids best interests. Courts favor 50 50 and in 2 years, will favor it more so.
                              Just breathe it out and enjoy the time leading upto it.

                              Comment

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