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  • #31
    Why can't there just be free university tuition anyway? (not that it will make some people go in the first place). If you drop out/ don't finish...you pay back the Govt.

    Countries where university tuition is free:

    1. Norway: Higher education in Norway is considered to be free of charge for everyone,

    2. Germany is another European country that has top universities but very low tuition or even no tuition fees

    3. No tuition fees are charged for Bachelor’s and Doctoral programmes, regardless of your nationality. Master's programmes are in general for free for students from EU/EEA member countries but also students outside of the EU can study for free in most cases.

    4. University education in Denmark is free for students from the EU-EEA member countries and Switzerland. For all others students tuition fees range from about EUR 6,000 to EUR 16,000 Euro per year.

    5. In Austrian universities there are no tuition fees for students from EU-EEA member countries, Switzerland and least developed countries.

    Source

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    • #32
      Just a note...
      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
      Some general comments:
      4. I wouldn't recommend taking this one to court at all. As recommended earlier you should be prepared to cover the 1/3 (or 1/2) of the cost and put "gramps" money out of it.
      I have no intention of court, but I do want to ask that they follow what we all agreed to.



      But, what money gramps contributed is *gramps money*.
      I wouldn't rely upon "gramps" money to send *your* children to university and/or college. You should rely upon *your* money.
      There is an estimated $30,000 of government money and interest on that money. This money does not belong to gramps.

      I'm curious, if my daughter does go to school, but gramps doesn't approve of what she is doing (he is actually capable of a decision like that) does she have any recourse to recovering the grant money that the federal government has always intended go to her education? I believe she may have grounds for a civil suit against gramps in such a case.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mess View Post
        I'm curious, if my daughter does go to school, but gramps doesn't approve of what she is doing (he is actually capable of a decision like that) does she have any recourse to recovering the grant money that the federal government has always intended go to her education? I believe she may have grounds for a civil suit against gramps in such a case.
        I doubt there is recourse for her - he holds that portion as a trustee, and can renounce and close without consequences. Is/was there another competing RESP account open during that time that could have received the benefit?

        If I were grandpa, I'd release only if the RESP were applied toward the kidlet share. [which is rather what you are implying above - the kidlet has grounds for a loss to her share -- not you, for your share].

        Most of the cases I read on Canlii when I was doing my own research seemed to have family trusts, family RESPs, etc. considered as for the benefit of the child, and applied to their share. And I think general practice is to take the entire amount of the RESP, divide by the number of years expected/needed, and then those estimated funds are released on an annual basis. So a payment of $50,000 or 100% of the costs wouldn't happen in the first year anyway.

        Depending on the amount of the RESP, and the respective incomes of the parents (all of which will have to be disclosed to complete an OSAP application), your kidlet may not qualify for OSAP grants ~ and she isn't required to apply for an OSAP loan. Her share could very well be the aggregate of a percentage of summer employment income and a percentage of the RESP.

        Really, that particular clause of your agreement is poorly written - it is simply not enforceable. I would be budgeting to pay 1/3. Maybe you'll catch a break and grandpa releases in your favour.

        However if the grandparents wish to screw you over there are probably 1,001 scenarios here in which they could do it.
        Grandpa is not screwing him over -- grandpa more than likely wants the money he set aside for his granddaughter, credited to his granddaughter.
        Last edited by mcdreamy; 01-10-2014, 12:00 AM. Reason: dammit I made typos!
        Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

        Comment


        • #34
          Mess I read your original post and the first thing that came to mind is "can you not talk with the grandfather about this?"

          Maybe I'm a tad naive, and I certainly don't know your relationship with the man, but he set the education fund up for the grandchildren's benefit not for you.

          Might be worth your while to simply talk to him about his past and current intentions regarding the grandchildren's post-secondary education. If he is a reasonable individual he might respect you for your candour.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Mess I read your original post and the first thing that came to mind is "can you not talk with the grandfather about this?"

            Maybe I'm a tad naive, and I certainly don't know your relationship with the man, but he set the education fund up for the grandchildren's benefit not for you.

            Might be worth your while to simply talk to him about his past and current intentions regarding the grandchildren's post-secondary education. If he is a reasonable individual he might respect you for your candour.
            Ha ha. Gramps hated me from the moment he met me. He was a history major, inherited his family's factory, and sold for millions, and was always convinced I married his daughter to get his money. I divorced as much to get away from his insanity as to get away from hers.

            Hence the games around the RESP. My ex is actually being quite reasonable about it, but gramps won't tell us what the account is worth. And like I implied, he is fully the type to not release the funds unless she takes an MBA.

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            • #36
              Yikes - doesn't sound like a good idea then.

              Why don't you and ex get daughter to approach Gramps and ask him? I know it's not considered kosher to have kids involved with finances, however, a simple pointed question from her might cut the BS. "Grandpa I was always told by mom and dad that you had money put away to pay for my university - is it true?" (Plant a tape recording device on the kid hahaha - bribe her if you have to).
              Last edited by arabian; 01-10-2014, 12:53 AM. Reason: changed "wife" to "ex" !

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              • #37
                The RESP is own by the grandfather then you are fully depending on him to make the decision on how it will be use or distribute. Not much you can do there.

                But since the Grant portion can only be taken out while the kids as proof of school enrollment. the Grand father would need that proof to submit to the plan.

                Due to the restriction of the plan there is limitation on the first withdraw in the first 13 weeks, you are limited to 5K and that is not purely grant, you have to withdraw only a percentage.

                after the first 13 weeks the limitation is gone, where grandma will be able to withdraw any amount and technically can keep it all for himself or give whatever he wants.

                There is no rule that the withdraw has to go to the child, but the grant and interest portion of the resp withdraw will count as income for the child.
                That income has to be declared on any OSAP application and there is no way around as they will also verify with CRA.

                When you are not owner or co-owner of the plan, this is just an headache to budget planning if the owner does not cooperate. In your case, I would just leave to your ex to handle this as you have no influence or ownership on it and of course no legal recourse.
                Once money Grant and interest withdraw end up showing on the kid income, he/her has a recourse if in fact the money was not given to them.

                Comment


                • #38
                  he is fully the type to not release the funds unless she takes an MBA.
                  But he is able to dictate and put in place prerequisites for how "his money" is to be utilized though. Isn't that part of what we discuss on here, that we all have a duty to fend for ourselves, and that we shouldn't bring up her kid(s) with the notion that "entitlement" is their God given right?

                  (Plant a tape recording device on the kid hahaha - bribe her if you have to).
                  There are rules against "entrapment"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    She is a dependant child and has every reason to be cared for and supported.

                    She has been told for her entire life that a) her mother and her aunts benefited from a family education trust, and b) she would be the benficiary of the RESP.

                    So really, I don't want to hear any shit that her grandfather doesn't have to pay. If you want legal, then it is a constructive trust. Look it up.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
                      It's already anarchy when "rich" grandparents involve themselves and their money directly into the divorces of their children. Sadly, there's no accountability or responsibility for this kind of conduct either.
                      Nor should there be.

                      Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
                      You can see this in many cases, including WorkingDad's.
                      Please explain how this is at all similar to WorkingDad's case at all? Sure, there are grandparents involved in that matter but, they are not paying for lawyers let alone education of the child. That case was brought forward on the wings of legal aid...

                      Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
                      In the best scenario they simply become enablers and/or negative advocates.
                      And 99% of cases that have grandparents helping "fight it out in court" just demonstrates where the habitual pattern of high conflict was instilled by the high conflict parent. Judges are smarter than you think and grandparents have no standing before the court... They often file affidavits but, are biased parties who are nothing than fountains of hearsay.

                      Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
                      In the worst cases, they become literally antagonists in the "story" of the divorce.
                      But, that usually is very evident on a file.

                      Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
                      I don't have any evidence to support it, but I believe my ex only began to curb her unreasonable expectations and behaviour once her parents decided to stop covering all her legal bills.
                      There probably isn't any evidence of it... It takes two parties to end a conflict on consent...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mess View Post
                        There is an estimated $30,000 of government money and interest on that money. This money does not belong to gramps.
                        How do you arrive at the 30,000 of government money?

                        The Canadian Education Savings Grant (CESG), through the federal government supplements RESP contributions, matching up to 20% of your annual contribution (to a maximum of $500 per beneficiary per calendar year.)

                        So, at a max of $500 per year...

                        $500 * 18 (years) = $9000

                        $30,000 - $9,000 = $21,000 (interest)

                        More than the money, could you get me the investment portfolio that can run $500 a year investment a year into $21,000. That is an awesome investment portfolio.

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

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                        • #42
                          And interest. I should have said "Non-contributed amount." Terribly sorry.
                          I am looking at principal, grant, and interest compounded monthly for 17 years. Minus gramp's original contribution leaves about 29500 (my calculator is elsewhere.) Some of that is gramp's interest, however it would have been taxable yearly, so even that is inflated by the benefits of the Plan.

                          This is getting to the point of arguing whether it is raining out side or drizzling. At no point has gramps said he won't pay out. My question is whether I can expect a statement of account. Apparently not.

                          "Gramps can do what he wants with his money" is not the answer to my original question.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This is getting to the point of arguing whether it is raining out side or drizzling.
                            I can assure you that it is indeed raining

                            But yes....your original question is indeed

                            whether you can expect a statement of account.
                            But like now say ......."Apparently not."

                            This topic has been really interesting and an eye opening for sure

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mess View Post
                              "Gramps can do what he wants with his money" is not the answer to my original question.
                              The answer is to open your own RESP and resister the SIN and get the statement of account.

                              I believe that as a custodial parent you may be able to have the funds transferred (government) to your account. There isn't much online about it I am told but, you can get them to call you back:

                              https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/iesl...alk/ntr.action

                              (The click to talk app actually works BTW. They do call back.)

                              You can probably stake a claim to the government contributions but, that would not be a family law matter but, one taken under the legislation that governs RESPs.

                              Also, I have to correct my above statement about 9,000. There is a total cap of the contribution from government over a life time at 7,500.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken

                              Comment

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