Catholic School

[thomasjv]

Hello all -- I need some advice.

Recently, my ex-wife relocated and enrolled my daughter into a Catholic School. My son was enrolled into a Public School.

I was not consulted in the decision to enroll my daughter into a Catholic School and I vehemently disagree with this decision. My daughter does not believe in God and I do not believe in teaching religion in the school system.

Regardless, my ex-wife is now asking me to share the cost of the outfits for Catholic School which total $300. I am not a cheap Dad, and I know when to pick and choose my battles, but two questions come immediately to mind.

1. Isn't the cost of clothing included in my child support payments?

2. Why should I be on the hook to pay half the cost of school outfits when I disagree with the decision to send her to Catholic School, and I was not consulted in the first place.

Obviously, if I wanted my daughter to attend Catholic School I would pay my share of this expense. But I wasn't consulted and don't agree with the decision. I have always preferred my children to attend Public School and make decisions about religion later in life.

Comments and feedback would be greatly appreciated.

T.

[Foredeck]

What does your daughter want?

I know a few children who go to religious schools and they loved their experience, and some of them are not religious at all. So, it's not all about the God.

My advice, if your daughter is happy, forget about your preference and support her.

As for the money, it really depends, it's a grey area. It could be considered a day to day expense, or it could be considered extra ordinary. It depends on your ex's salary and how much CS you pay.

I believe it would fall in "pick your battle". Do you feel that it's enough to fight over 150$?

Do you have shared custody or does she have sole custody?

[thomasjv]

Thanks for the reply.

Here is the situation in more detail. My ex not only relocated but she moved in with another man, just a month after she and her husband separated. This man's son goes to the same Catholic School, hence the decision to send my daughter there.

My daughter does not mind attending this school, however, I don't think she understands that there will be additional stress since religious courses will be added to her studies. And in all honesty, she does not have very good grades right now and just failed French. Also, she does not start at the new school until today so I do not know if she will be happy there or not.

Religious teachings and Catholic School aside, there is a deeper issue that you did not mention. Decisions regarding Religion need to be made jointly, between both parents (I have joint custody and this is in my separation agreement). I was not consulted in this case. This is a very common practice with my ex, she makes decisions on her own and then runs to me like an ATM machine to make a cash withdrawal.

I'm all about picking and choosing battles, but I consider decisions regarding Religion fairly important. And I realize it's not "all about God" but it certainly plays a part, and I have very strong opinions where it comes to religion in the educational system. But that is not what this is about.

Anyhow, I still need to know if a school uniform is included in Child Support payments or considered an extra.

Thanks,

T.

[thomasjv]

NOTE: Just as I finished typing my last reply, I received another email from my ex adjusting the fee for the outfits to $460, or $230 each.

[Deputy Daddy]

I subscribed to the pick your battles philosophy early on in this journey, but if I were to do it all over again I would have fought some that I gave up. I am sensible enough not to spend $1,000 to get $800.00 and my ex knows this so she would simply demand knowing that I'd weigh the options and give in. Where is her incentive to be reasonable? She knew I'd give in and early on I set that precedent that's been difficult to overcome.

"Picking your battles" applies to more than just financial gains. It sounds like she is falling into a pattern of making decisions without you and that may be something to fight for...

Unfortunately there is no right answer in these situations but I hope you choose something that benefits your family and especially your daughter.

DD

[thomasjv]

Thanks Deputy Daddy, I appreciate your response.

I am all about my kids and since our divorce six years ago, I have never missed a support payment and I have given extra as often as possible.

Also, I would like to point out that after my ex separated from her husband, she also lost her job. Even though it caused me financial hardship, I doubled up on support payments for a month to help her and the kids over the first hump.

I pay for haircuts, clothes, etc when they are with me and am not a cheap father. But there is a certain lesson she needs to learn here. She must consult me when it comes to important decisions and not look at me as though all I am is an ATM machine. I value my relationship with my children dearly and she knows it.

Anyhow, even though I will probably cave and pay the $230, I still need to know if the uniform is covered by child support.

Thanks,

T.

[Foredeck]

There was a reply about prescription eye glasses I believe, and the conclusion was that it depended on a few factors. You could do a search for that, I believe it was within the last week.

Basically, extraordinary expenses are whatever is not reasonably covered by child support. However, since you have joint custody, I believe you are on the hook for half, or your prorated share of all expenses that are shared (school would be in it, eyewear, winter jackets).

If you have shared custody, and you pay the net amount of CS, you have to remember, that in theory, she pays you CS as well, you just pay a greater amount.

If you want to be a pain, you could refuse to pay and make her request it through lawyers. It's probably too late for this decision, however, she should understand that you're two when it comes to raising your kids.

[thomasjv]

Thanks Foredeck. I searched the forums and found another thread re: school uniforms. See Q & A below.

Q. Are school uniforms counted as an extra-ordinary expense?

A. Since they will be using a school uniform in the place of regular clothes then this is part of child support. In family court what extra-ordinary implies something that is not expected or is above and beyond the norm. For a family enrolling their children in a catholic school where the uniforms are mandatory, then this is an "expected" expense, therefore not extra-ordinary or out of the norm for a catholic school.

Thoughts?

[Foredeck]

Look at the thread

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-expense-3746/

It is my opinion that the school uniform would be a school expense and not a clothing expense.

Also, if you use a winter jacket as an example. Your daughter will only have one jacket, so who should buy it? To make it simple, say you have 50% custody, and both parents make 50 000$. The net amount of child support would be zero, since both parents would pay the same amount.

So, it would make sense to each pay 50%, or to alternate buying these items.

There's an argument to be made for each side. And, I haven't seen a clear cut answer for these matters to date.

[Dawn is tired....]

It depends on what your daughter wants 100%.. perhaps this school is a better school with less riff raff and more opportuinites? This is definitely the case in my area.. My ex is made to pay his portion for my daughters uniforms, however in my case he is the catholic one... LOL... BUT it is a better school. Perhaps your wife is trying to get your daughter out a bad crowd by changing schools, there must be another reason. I cannot see somebody doing that for no reason.

[thomasjv]

She chose this school because...

a) it is right across the street from where they live.
b) her new boyfriend's son attends the school.

This has nothing to do with her wanting my daughter to go to a "better school", it is all about convenience.

My understanding is that the children from this school have already been banned by the plaza across the street due to theft and vandalism.

As I mentioned above, my daughter changed schools because my ex moved in with her new boyfriend in a different city. Otherwise, she would still be attending public school.

[Dawn is tired....]

Can you be my ex-husband? LMAO... Seriously, I am the one how will not spend $1000 to gain $500 and my ex uses that against me... I have male friends who are divorced and cannot beleive how shafted I am. BUT at the end of the day there is a sense of accomplishment that you always put the kids first. And the kids will see it to. I would offer to take your daughter and pay for the whole uniform. F`K your ex, you will reap the respect from your daughter and out wiegh any 'poison' she is hearing from your ex. AND if you ever do go to court, you can clearly show what you paid for , etc. and this will lend credence to your case.

[Ihave2kidsIcannotsee]

She hs no right to make that decision without asking you first. It is not fair that the one recieving the child support seems to be able to make all the decisions for the children and the Payor just has to take it. LIke someone els said if you give in you are setting yourself up for her to continue behaving this way and soon you will have no decisons at all in your daughters life. In my experience the non-payor always seems to think they have all the rights and that the payor is just there for the money. I stated in an other post that we neeed to take the courts out of family buisness and put the parents back in. Parents need to make decsions together and not spend all their money on lawyers (who's only reason for taking on a case is to make money) Family problems are not something that belongs to a judge to decide on it just doesn't work. Someone always ends up with the short end of the stick and its usually the payor because he is not allowed to be involved 100% in his child or children's lives. Sad is what family court is just Sad, that Judges make decsions without all the evidence without knowing the whole story without any emotional attachment to the child or children involved he /she can make a decison and walk away but the child cannot he/she has to live with that decision for the rest of his her life. Judges do not realize the position they are in that they can by their very decisons impact a child's life in sometimes horrible ways. I think that parents need to put aside their feelings for their ex and sit down and dicuss things with maturity in a civil way without judges. Just parent like you were supposed to when you were married jointly not seperately with Judges in the middle of it.

[Mess]

thomas, I agree that she has no right to make that decision but I would add a few things.

Joint custody is more than just a few words in a separation agreement. You are either parenting jointly or you are not. You should have been involved in this decision, you should also be working with your ex to draft a budget for extraordinary expenses every year (school costs, camp, sports,etc) so that you each can expect what to fund throughout the year.

Ideally you should be signing half the cheques, and dropping them off and meeting the principal and teachers, the coaches, the music teachers, the camp councellors, etc. You should be sitting and filling out the application forms in the office alongside your ex. You should be volunteering in the school once a month and chaperoning on class trips.

You should be attending doctor's vistits, and alternating trips to the dentist. You should know these doctors by name, and they should recognize you, and they shouldn't have to stop and think about whether you are a custodial guardian or not. Much less have to look it up.

Ideally you should be practicing parenting in every way possible, otherwise what was the point? Your daughter needs to see you involved, needs to see that you have input, needs to hear your opinions, and needs to see that you are not a doormat.

In a worse case scenario, if your ex decides to lock you out of decision-making, and you have been letting this go on for years, then what is your argument you will bring to the courts? What is your defence if she brings it to the courts to have you officially locked out?

Be involved, have your say, and be clear that you have a veto on this nonsense. Express to both your ex and your daughter that this change is temporary, you will follow up with the daughter to see how it is going, and you will pull her out if she is not 100% happy.

[billiechic]

How old is your daughter? If she is old enough, her opinion should matter. Find out if she actually made the decision and why. If she is ok with her let her try it for the rest of the year. Would she have had to change schools anyway?

IMO, a uniform should be covered in CS. She will need fewer clothes, or they will last longer. She will not need everything new every year, just some things. I went to a uniform school, it was great.