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Arbitration - Good or not?

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  • #16
    Good article Tayken

    Thank you

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    • #17
      I guest I'm venting...

      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
      And 15 days of trial... Be prepared. You are going to need to find compromises too. Some times it is better to give up something you can replenish (money) later in life. You can buy yourself a 50/50 full joint custody settlement. That is how the vast majority of them are settled out of court. Children cannot be replaced but, with hard work and dedication you can replace money.

      You should make an offer to settle that can't be severed where you give the other party in the matter a very big carrot to do the right thing when it comes to custody and access. You may have to "buy" the other party's emotions to make sure the right things are done for the children.


      I understand what you are saying and I have often seen it in several cases of separation. But in my situation, where my NFP is worth near 500K$ and hers is still under 200K$ (but not yet all disclosed), don't you think I could say that my contribution (the equalization payment) toward her will suffice to buy her emotions? Of course, what is bringing my net so high is related to my Federal Pension.

      More to that... I feel I'm being penalized in the ending of our 15 years of mariage. while she was having a good time outside with her friends (and most probably boyfriends), I'm the one who was staying alone with my kids and doing all the housework. The money I earned was putted in the house. The money she earns went on spending a good time and buying luxury stuff for herself. I'm the one who got tired of all this and wanted her to act as a descent mother and spouse. Then she changed the locks of the house and prevented me from seeing my children. She then insinuates that there was domestic violence and I completely lose access to my home and my children. I search for help... None was provided. After the incident at work, it then took me over 10 months to clear my criminal charge and went 7 months without seeing my kids. My kids that I use to take care ALONE. Could we say that this has caused a turmoil in my life and that I would also be entitled to compensation? Can I asked that we buy my emotions? Or this is not allowed to my gender?

      You see, I'm a finance guy and I consider myself to be the Math person. I did the calculation and I know I did it right and everything is there because I don't have anything to hide. But on the other hand, I've been emotionally f***g disturbed by her f***g lies and BS. It is very hard for me to just let go and let her have it her way. We must fight for our rights when the other side has taken advantage unfairly and dishonestly of the system to gain what they believe to be "theirs".

      I'll maybe give a big carrot... but will ask for a nice bucket of potatoes for the sake of our children.

      Being said, I know I will need to compromise somewhere as it is very common to my gender in Family Law. It may be about the matrimonial home but this will be possible only if there is a reasonable agreement for child custody. I've been with my kids more than 80% of the time, for sure I won't accept less than 50% as it is already an unacceptable drop.

      By the way... my STBX is definitely without contradictions ... the emotional person.

      Comment


      • #18
        Lawyers love people like you who have assets and who want to fight the emotional fight (compensation for her denying you parenting time to children). In the end the lawyers are the ones who make the money. Your ex may have lived large throughout your marriage but essentially you endorsed it as you stayed in the marriage for 15 years.

        The law is pretty clear that child custody/parenting time is separate from finances. So don't go there.

        Court will view that money you both earned went into your marriage or "lifestyle" and that you both benefited. How you both specifically spent the money through the marriage will have no relevance in the end.

        Houses are replaceable. I'd be more inclined to protect the pension. However, I do not know details of your situation.

        Regarding custody - she would take a pretty big hit (if child custody were to be determined by trial) for lying and denying you parenting time. I would consider requesting a large amount of make-up time starting this summer perhaps? Are you considering sole custody with generous parenting time to mother?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mafia007 View Post
          It's clear to me that because of custody issues, my case is to complex for arbitration. She wants me to be a "Visitor" to our children. Also, all the other outstanding items are an issue because she makes it being an issue. I want a fair 50/50 settlement but she wants an unfair 85% settlement. I have a higher income, a pension, benefits, I'm well insured (dead, I'm worth a million) and I already have a new life in a more than wonderful family. She has nothing of that to share (this is why she's greedy) and she was raised through a family full of hypocrites. She has good life insurance that I bought (good lord, I'll be beneficiary for the sake of the children). She wants to keep the house and buy my share at a very lower value than the appraisal.... this is obviously to much for a one day arbitration.

          FYI - arbitrations don't have to be wrapped up in 1 day. If you have all of your financials it doesn't take long at all. I think your financial situation would be fairly straight-forward. Arbitration might be a consideration if you can resolve the child custody issues beforehand. I don't know much about deciding child custody through Arbitration. If I find some information I will either post it or PM it to you.

          The only thing I see "complicated" about your situation is the ability for you and your ex to keep your emotions out of things and to proceed in a fact-based, logical manner.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Lawyers love people like you who have assets and who want to fight the emotional fight (compensation for her denying you parenting time to children). In the end the lawyers are the ones who make the money. Your ex may have lived large throughout your marriage but essentially you endorsed it as you stayed in the marriage for 15 years.

            The law is pretty clear that child custody/parenting time is separate from finances. So don't go there.
            Arabian, I am not going there. I was being sarcastic and was just Venting. I know Finance and custody/parenting time are two different things. I know I will lose a lot and will have to share more as my NFP is higher. I'm OK with that as I have long time ago disclosed all my finance stuff. The problem reside on the other side. 30% of her finance have not yet been disclosed and we asked numerous times. Now I decided to send Form 20 for disclosure of financial documents as per Tayken's advice. And for her wishing me to be a Visitor to my children... she can poke her eyes with her own fingers.

            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Court will view that money you both earned went into your marriage or "lifestyle" and that you both benefited. How you both specifically spent the money through the marriage will have no relevance in the end.


            Houses are replaceable. I'd be more inclined to protect the pension.
            All my offers to settle clearly stated that she could keep the house if my pension could stay intact. Now with the debts I accumulated because of her unwillingness to settle, I have no choice to ask for the equity of the house, by having it on the market (as she won't accept the value of the appraisal after agreeing to it until now) and to share half my pension. No retiring trip for me in the future.

            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Regarding custody - she would take a pretty big hit (if child custody were to be determined by trial) for lying and denying you parenting time. I would consider requesting a large amount of make-up time starting this summer perhaps? Are you considering sole custody with generous parenting time to mother?
            This is out of question. My parenting time is still set at a couple hours per weeks and I am still fighting for more time with sleepovers. Make up times will never be granted by a judge at this time as the children must slowly readapt to dad's schedule because they were away from me for a long period... What a ridiculous BS. They now treat our children like wild animals that must be approached securely. Wow... dad doesn't remember how to parent his children... and the children do not remember how to behave in front of dad... and maybe they don't remember dad at all? I like the mentality of the Court... tends to relate much like psychologists.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              FYI - arbitrations don't have to be wrapped up in 1 day. If you have all of your financials it doesn't take long at all. I think your financial situation would be fairly straight-forward. Arbitration might be a consideration if you can resolve the child custody issues beforehand. I don't know much about deciding child custody through Arbitration. If I find some information I will either post it or PM it to you.

              The only thing I see "complicated" about your situation is the ability for you and your ex to keep your emotions out of things and to proceed in a fact-based, logical manner.
              Whooooo you don't know me Arabian. I had sent several offers to settle since the beginning and every time, her counteroffers were unreasonable and full of crap. The law state I must share my pension. It's there and I had to pay a professional to actuate it. More costs on my part, nothing on her side. The family law states that the assets and marital home is split 50/50. She want's everything. Already the furniture and households were split 25/75%. Guest who got 75%? (this is by the way one of my compromises). I lost access to my house and could not retrieve everything that were left there... some were belongings I had when I was a teenager. All gone and I don't really care now. She can do a garage sale tomorrow and make thousands of dollar with that stuff. I don't care (another compromise from my part). I bought a new home and started all over again. I am trying to turn the page but she keeps on stopping the process by bringing new stuff on the table. Were separated since 2014 and I'm out of the house since 2015. She screwed up big time in filing her income taxes in 2014 and 2015 (I use to do her accounting for her daycare at home) and now she claims it is my fault and she is asking that I reimbursed CRA WTF... I told her several time to stick to the valuation date and what is going on after... is not the other's party responsibility. I'm into big debts now... maybe more than she is... does she wants me to bring it on the table and ask her to pay half of it? No, after separation, it's my problem. I don't bring ridiculous stuff like that, why she keeps on doing it?

              I once told her that more she brings irrelevant stuff in our separation, more we will be giving to each of our lawyers. I'm assuming though it is costing more on her side since she's the one who initiates the BS.

              No really, I'm the one being very rational. What is going on today, is not part of our separation. Otherwise, why don't we bring the valuation date as of today? It would be beneficial to her as she will get another two years of my pension!

              For the children... she wants no contact at all. Father out of the picture... the only thing I will count for is ALL my money. She wants to take care of the kids alone. STOP THAT... there is no way a judge will grant anything like that so why keep on asking? I'm asking a- 50/50 parenting time with joint custody.

              Until last week, I was sticking to this. But now, if I can't have what I am proposing, I'm asking b- 50/50 parenting time with parallel custody or c- sole custody to father with generous access to mother. And let that be.

              And yes, if we can settle the custody, I would be more inclined to deal with the rest in arbitration.

              Comment


              • #22
                There were some things I recall that I really liked about the arbitration process. First of all we BOTH had to agree that if we couldn't come to an agreement on things that the judge's ruling was final and binding. I recall that we signed plenty of documents prior to the binding JDR many months before the hearing. I think the court wants to make sure that both parties are committed to the process so as to not waste the court's time. I was told by my lawyer that there was no going back once we both committed to this process. Judge reiterated this right at the start of the JDR day and said that we both would likely prefer it if we were to come to our own agreement rather than one given by the judge. Secondly, we went in to this knowing that we were responsible for paying our own lawyers so there wasn't any game playing insofar as trying to one-up the other with offers/counter-offers (that had been tried along with useless 4-way meeting to no avail). AT the start of the day the judge gave us an overview of how the day would progress. The way in which the judge conducts the JDR varies from judge to judge. Thirdly, we both had a chance to speak. My ex blew it right out of the gate though as he was aggressive in his manner of speaking. Judge shut him down immediately and his lawyer would barely let him utter a word for the remainder of the day. Ex's side tried to lie by omission. That didn't work as we had documents readily available to prove the dishonesty. Judge quickly summed up ex for what he was - a dishonest sleaze. The majority of the time was spent with the lawyers talking with the judge. It was intense financial discussion and I remember feeling light headed and zoning out from time to time. My lawyer was quite amazing. Judge made sure that all sides of issues were weighed carefully. This was a senior judge and the lawyers were very, very respectful. At the end of the day the judge ordered a break and we adjourned for 1/2 hr. We came back into the conference room and judge read the ruling. We then went upstairs to a courtroom where judge was robed. Judge asked my ex to stand and he swore to adultery. We then sat and listened to judge pronounce us divorced. The Order (which had been typed up) was signed by the judge but not read in court. 15 minutes later we were done. We had reserved 3 days but only needed the one. I attribute this to the judge having our documents for 30 days prior to the hearing. I believe there was a limitation on the size of the briefs which were submitted by each party and there was also restrictions on the exhibits.

                Perhaps you can get the custody issues decided and then consider binding arbitration? Your ex can "want" many things but that is irrelevant. Your assets and debts will be divided.

                Many lawyers don't recommend arbitration because they have no experience with it and others know that the lucrative $$ is with high-emotion ongoing settlement conferences.

                At some time you have to call her on her bluff and simply say "no" and offer binding arbitration. Too bad the judges in Ontario don't offer to do binding arbitration.

                Comment

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