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  • Child Support and kids sports fees

    My ex and separated and 2 children live with me and two with her , ive always had my children in sports from hockey during winter and baseball and soccer and lacrosse during summer. My issue is that she will not help or says she cant but can always afford new things , i work two jobs which is double edge sword because i make more money to help pay for sports and tournaments, so I'm suppose pay more to her because i made more money , isn't she accountable to help also ? Can i use fees and new equipment even used lately against child support

    Any help will be great

  • #2
    Sports (that cost more than $100) are extra-ordinary expenses. The cost of the activity is shared by the parents proportionally to income. So if you make more then your ex you will pay a proportionally equal amount more. But the ex is still obligated to pay their proportional share.

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    • #3
      Where did you get the information re: more than $100? Do you have a source? I always wondered if there was an amount...

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      • #4
        Here is the section of the Act:

        expenses that exceed those that the parent or spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover
        So if you have too high income earners as parents, c/s will cover the cost of most expenses. If you have 2 parents on minimum wage then c/s will cover very limited extra-ordinary expenses.

        Personally, I use this section of the Act as a guide:

        health-related expenses that exceed insurance reimbursement by at least $100 annually, including orthodontic treatment, professional counselling provided by a psychologist, social worker, psychiatrist or any other person, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, prescription drugs, hearing aids, glasses and contact lenses
        If c/s covers up to $100 for health related matters, it is reasonable to believe it would be similar for sports/activities.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
          Here is the section of the Act:



          So if you have too high income earners as parents, c/s will cover the cost of most expenses. If you have 2 parents on minimum wage then c/s will cover very limited extra-ordinary expenses.

          Personally, I use this section of the Act as a guide:



          If c/s covers up to $100 for health related matters, it is reasonable to believe it would be similar for sports/activities.
          I disagree with the $100 limit - though as HD said it is relative to income, so maybe it works for him. This is how I look at it.

          It clearly says that expenses are extraordinary relative to what they can reasonably cover - which essentially saying extraordinary relative to income. The $100 medical limit has nothing to do with it - the $100 medical limit is because medical costs are not part of CS, and to minimize nickel and diming, a limit was set. CS DOES include all normal costs for raising a child at that income, which does include extracurricular activities.

          I look at as considering if the COMBINED income of the parents means that it is reasonable that they would pay for that expense without much thought, it is covered by CS.

          For example, with my 3 kids we spend about $2000/year/kid on extracurricular activities. Our combined income is $170K. This is a very normal expense and it is reasonable that we can cover that expense, therefore it is part of CS. But when my daughter took competitive swimming, it was pretty expensive, so we called it extraordinary.

          Comment


          • #6
            As bill indicated, it's all relative to the individual situation, and there is no hard/fast rule.

            Personally I'd take the stance of either more than $100 or more than $500/kid/year being extraordinary. The $100 due to the reasons listed already, or if you go $500/child/year, because that is the max limit of the child fitness tax credit you can claim.

            But at the end of the day, what is "reasonable" for you and what is "reasonable" for ME, could be two very different things.

            Comment


            • #7
              my understanding is you have 4 kids....2 with you and 2 with mom...my solution is to ignore her, it isn't worth the trouble.....if you push ...she'll sign the kids up for everything under the sun.....like you said the more you make the more they take......courts entertian anything now as a special expense with no proof the kids even doin the stuff thats claimed (that takes a trial...you wanna push it that long?)...pay for ur kids stuff let the sleeping dawg gloat, cheaper in long run.......also you don't want hockey plus this and plus that special expense because once they(courts) fix an expenduture (always a global amount) ...it never goes down...ever ..only up

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd hate to jack this thread, but how does ordinary and extra ordinary expenses work in shared parenting situations where there is no primary parent or residence?

                For example, child comes home and needs $40 for school trip. Who pays for this? Parent A who makes $50k or Parent B who makes $100k and pays offset CS? Again, it is only $40, but add them all up over a year and you could be getting up to $2000 of ordinary expenses.

                Would not the civil way to do it is all expenses be proportional to income because you are sharing the raising of the child from seperate residences?

                Would be interesting to hear how some view allowances to the child are dispursed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
                  I'd hate to jack this thread, but how does ordinary and extra ordinary expenses work in shared parenting situations where there is no primary parent or residence?

                  For example, child comes home and needs $40 for school trip. Who pays for this? Parent A who makes $50k or Parent B who makes $100k and pays offset CS? Again, it is only $40, but add them all up over a year and you could be getting up to $2000 of ordinary expenses.

                  Would not the civil way to do it is all expenses be proportional to income because you are sharing the raising of the child from seperate residences?
                  No - that does not make sense.

                  Always start with what is the goal.

                  The goal is to raise the kids in proportion to income. CS covers all normal expenses.

                  The kids live in both homes, so you pay offset CS. You have now balanced the money available in both homes to raise the kids for all expenses that are normally covered by CS given your combined incomes. I call those expenses 'normal' (ie the other expenses are 'extraordinary' and not covered by CS).

                  To be completely fair, all normal expenses that are not associated with only one house (such as the $40 school trip, clothes, allowance, but not food, or shelter, or doing things with the other parent), should be shared 50/50.

                  50/50 because you have already balanced the money available in the two homes for those costs, and one parent should not pay for things outside the house, they both should.

                  Extraordinary expenses (medical, dental, expensive extracurricular, post secondary school), are not covered by CS, so those should be split according to income.

                  For the CS shared normal expenses, you can come up with a rule, 'must be at least $50, or a recurring expense' to bother sharing, but to be absolutely fair (and perhaps avoid arguments), just share all expenses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    whatever bill said I guess ...too confusing.....here's wat you do..thank your lucky stars you got joint......document every expense you feel you need some kinda re-imbursent for.....send the occasional e-mail to ur ex about what little junior is doin and politely ask if she wants to contribute (thats called effective notice)....every day that u get by without having to go to court put a smiley face on a calender.....someday when you total all the sp expense's up and it goes over 20,000.00 dollars then it's worth spending 20,000.00 in court for a lawyer to try to get back...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My issue is that I make 50,000 and she making 35,000 , i work extra to cover the 4 boys sport fees not just mine which costly and i refuse to deny them sports , my ex says im living thru them and wont pay, will it be against the law not to pay the little extra that i pay for child support to offside all the rep fees and tournament fees

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sixfeetunder View Post
                        ...my ex says im living thru them and wont pay...
                        so f**kn typical. She thinks you enjoy it so much that you should pay for it. She is not thinking of the kids, she can't stand paying for part of something that you receive so much pleasure from. She should be thanking you for your efforts - all she has to do is write a cheque - you are doing all the work to enrich their lives.

                        I'll bet that if you disappeared, she would sign them up.

                        She is self centered and angry at you.

                        Originally posted by sixfeetunder View Post
                        will it be against the law not to pay the little extra that i pay for child support to offside all the rep fees and tournament fees
                        I don't think she can deny sports for the kids. If it is reasonable, then she has to pay.

                        I would be tempted to take it out of the CS. She may take you to court, but I don't think it would look good for her - as long as the cost is reasonable and the only issue is money.

                        Make sure you have your requests/her denials documented and are reasonable in respecting her opinion about alternatives or lower cost activities.
                        Last edited by billm; 05-09-2012, 04:27 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Don't screw with CS if it's on a court order.......judges tend to think it's so easy to go to court just to make changes....it isn't...both parties already disagree and it gets worse from there...pay the cs...and take her to court while your paying what yur supposed to pay. (think if you disagree with the bank about your mortgage you could shave a little of the payment?) doing a Wal-Mart roll back unilaterally goes over like a lead balloon in court especially when your ex show's up with "made up" reciepts from ping-pong camp...and dental...and camping...and life insurance...and on and on. Cut back on the sports costs...try playing cards with the kids. (being a smart-ass)(but only there)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by theborg View Post
                            Don't screw with CS if it's on a court order.......judges tend to think it's so easy to go to court just to make changes....it isn't...both parties already disagree and it gets worse from there...pay the cs...and take her to court while your paying what yur supposed to pay. (think if you disagree with the bank about your mortgage you could shave a little of the payment?) doing a Wal-Mart roll back unilaterally goes over like a lead balloon in court especially when your ex show's up with "made up" reciepts from ping-pong camp...and dental...and camping...and life insurance...and on and on. Cut back on the sports costs...try playing cards with the kids. (being a smart-ass)(but only there)
                            You need to stop giving advice...

                            The $100 rule works well, if you are in a situation where on parent isn't paying for it all... you state you have two children with you and she has two with her, would it make sense that $100 rule goes for the kids living with you and then living with her?

                            It's unfortunate that she isn't willing to help out, but do you have an agreement that specifies section 7 expenses? If you do a search there are some posts on here on how to request payments...

                            (Correct me if I am wrong)

                            1) Send via email copies of receipts and ask that she pay her share

                            if no response

                            2) Send an R3 letter with copies of the receipts

                            if no response

                            3) Have lawyer write her a letter, with copies of receipts asking for payment

                            if no response

                            4) File motion with the court...

                            With having documented 3 attempts to settle, you may have a case for costs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Bern....can I call yeah Vern!.......I've never seen anything anywhere about the 100 dollar rule other than some post here in this thread......and surely if there was, such a stupid rule why are you pushing somebody into court with a lawyer on this made up 100 dollar rule? you have to be from another planet....and rich and love conflict...and you should shut your mouth giving advice(no offense)........you don't understand the entire process I do.

                              Comment

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