Compensation for re-education due to loss of job during marriage??

[ForwardFromHere]

I'm wondering if anyone is aware of a previous case of compensation being awarded for re-education due to the loss of employment during a marriage?

A little background: During our marriage it was mutually decided between my husband and I that I would leave my position in order to remain at home with the children. I was approved for leave for the care and nurturing of pre-school aged children.

Next year my youngest will be in school full-time so I thought I would look into returning to work at that time, although that was not necessarily to plan had we remained married. While we do not yet have a signed separation agreement, I was only asking for spousal support until then, expecting I would now have to return to work and fully have the ability to support myself. After contacting my employer I have learned that my position no longer exists for me to return to. I will be placed on a list for recall "after those that have been declared surplus or vulnerable, and those that have been laid off and enjoy the rights to recall". My name is only on that list for 12 months, and since I'm so far down that list with the amount of lay offs, I will not likely receive a vacant position. Also, because I have been on this leave of absence during the lay offs, I am not entitled to any departure incentive or package that may have been offered to others.

Had I returned to work after my last maternity leave, I would still have my position, with seniority. Because of this decision that both my husband and I made in the best interest of our family, I have lost the well-paying job (with benefits) I have worked at for 16 years, in which my skills set was extremely specific. I will not be able to secure a position with any other company for nearly the salary I had. In fact, I'd be lucky to get something better than a minimum wage job.

I am wondering if it will be possible to seek support to return to school to retrain for a new job.

I know there have been some cases in which compensation was paid for education (Hamashuk v. Hamashuk), but don't know of any similar to mine. Has anyone been in a similar situation or does any one have knowledge of such a case precedent?

[BitHunter]

Actually spousal support should serve exactly this purpose. Maybe that's why you didn't find other cases with designated compensation.

[ForwardFromHere]

So would you suggest I have my lawyer examine more closely the location within the ranges of spousal support based on my limited (zero) income?? Has anyone had any experience with being rewarded a higher amount of spousal support based on such a situation? And I suppose I will have to amend my proposed budget on my form 13.1 to reflect the cost of my education.

[representingself]

Has anyone had any experience with being rewarded a higher amount of spousal support based on such a situation?

I don't quite follow you.... "higher than" what exactly?

[ForwardFromHere]

I looked up spousal support on the Ontario Justice website and it says this:

"To decide on how much spousal support and the length of time that it should be paid, the law says that judges must consider a number of factors, including how much the person asking for support needs to meet his or her needs, and how much the other person can afford to pay. A person may claim support to help him or her become financially self-sufficient or to keep from ending up in serious financial difficulty."

I would've thought that compensation for education would fall under the part in bold? It is my intention to be completely self sufficient, but being a stay-at-home mom with zero income will not allow me to become financially self-sufficient. I would require support to maintain my home, as well as the financial aid for education. I'm not looking to obtain a PhD or anything. I was thinking a nice college course in book-keeping or something so I could better my abilities to obtain a job that would allow me to be self-sufficient.

If it makes a difference, my ex grossed 170k last year. My salary at my old job was 60k. I just want to make more than minimum wage at any future job I have.

[ForwardFromHere]

I don't quite follow you.... "higher than" what exactly?

As I understand it, the spousal support guidelines gives a range of amounts suggested to be paid. I'm asking if anyone has received the higher 'location within the ranges', as it is known, due to a similar situation as mine. There are a number of factors that can be considered.

[red6419]

I don't know about spousal support... but you could try looking up the second career program for training grants. I know someone who is starting a three year nursing course under this program.

Second Career Ontario Government Funding

[ForwardFromHere]

I don't know about spousal support... but you could try looking up the second career program for training grants. I know someone who is starting a three year nursing course under this program.

Second Career Ontario Government Funding

Now that was helpful! THANK YOU! I'm hoping I qualify. I will look into that for sure! Off to check it out more now....


Still, in the event that I don't qualify, I am still interested in hearing from anyone in a similar situation with regards to support as part of a separation settlement.

[HammerDad]

There are tests when determining how much SS gets paid, including the needs vs means. If you husband makes a fair amount, then you may qualify for more. But if after c/s is taken into consideration with your imputed income (you can't claim $0 income, you need to claim at least full time minimum wage which works out to about $20k), there is some math run to determine how much SS you would be entitled to.

I can't see how your ex should be responsible for paying extra while you are in school. There are programs available to help and he should not be disadvantaged because you decided to go to school instead of return to the work force, even if at some other position and capacity.

[dinkyface]

One of the basic reasons for existence of spousal support is to compensate for loss (of earning power) due to roles assumed during the marriage. So this is your situation exactly.

There are some general guidelines for calculating spousal support ... depending on your current incomes and length of marriage, and kids, but again, the plans you have for using the money does not affect the amount.

The fact that you are intending to use the support for reeducation is only relevant in that the SS guidelines recognize the eventual goal for the recipient is self-sufficiency. So I think your plans just 'make you look good', but are not the main argument.

But, since the guidelines are very rough, and there are lots of differences in each situation, it cannot hurt to 'play up' your plans for reeducation in order to try for an amount at the higher end of the range. It just depends on how much of a fight you're prepared for... and how strong is your own pride.

[dadtotheend]

How long were the two of you together? That will be a determining factor.

How long do you want SS? Just till you re-educate? Four years?

[ForwardFromHere]

There are tests when determining how much SS gets paid, including the needs vs means. If you husband makes a fair amount, then you may qualify for more. But if after c/s is taken into consideration with your imputed income (you can't claim $0 income, you need to claim at least full time minimum wage which works out to about $20k), there is some math run to determine how much SS you would be entitled to.

I can't see how your ex should be responsible for paying extra while you are in school. There are programs available to help and he should not be disadvantaged because you decided to go to school instead of return to the work force, even if at some other position and capacity.

Really, at 170k/year my ex will never be 'disadvantaged', especially when his new common law spouse makes the same!!

I guess my way of thinking is that if I return to school and I am able to obtain a better than minimum wage position, I would not need spousal support. That would have been the case if I was able to return to my previous job. It was my intention to only ask for spousal support until the kids were in school full time, to allow me to stay home with them and benefit both of us (and the kids) to not have to pay child care to someone else (more importantly, for our children to be cared for by their parent as opposed to someone else). It would be convenient for me to take advantage of this time at home with the kids to take some form of correspondence from home, but with the current proposals of support, that would not be a possibility.

I don't know if I'm making the situation clear or not....

[ForwardFromHere]

One of the basic reasons for existence of spousal support is to compensate for loss (of earning power) due to roles assumed during the marriage. So this is your situation exactly.

There are some general guidelines for calculating spousal support ... depending on your current incomes and length of marriage, and kids, but again, the plans you have for using the money does not affect the amount.

The fact that you are intending to use the support for reeducation is only relevant in that the SS guidelines recognize the eventual goal for the recipient is self-sufficiency. So I think your plans just 'make you look good', but are not the main argument.

But, since the guidelines are very rough, and there are lots of differences in each situation, it cannot hurt to 'play up' your plans for reeducation in order to try for an amount at the higher end of the range. It just depends on how much of a fight you're prepared for... and how strong is your own pride.

I won't lie, pride may come into account just for the fact that I was a very self-sufficient person before this marriage (owned my own property, worked hard at a good paying job, had significant savings). I have lost all of that as a result of this marriage. It's hard to look past that, yes. I will always land on my feet, and it is hard not to compare his financial situation to mine, but really I just want to be able to support a comfortable household for myself and my children. I certainly don't like relying on someone else, hence my decision to return to work instead of seeking spousal support for longer. I'm just hoping to end up being self-sufficient once again. I fear that the length of marriage will hurt me in the end. We were only married for 6 years.

[dadtotheend]

Three or so years of SS would be appropriate, but if you have primary residence of the children (how old are they?) it could lengthen that.

Second time asking, for how long do you want SS?

[ForwardFromHere]

Three or so years of SS would be appropriate, but if you have primary residence of the children (how old are they?) it could lengthen that.

Second time asking, for how long do you want SS?

Yes, I have primary residence of the kids, now 4 and 7.

How long do I want SS? Ideally, I would want to receive support for as long as it takes me to be self-sufficient in the manner I would've been in my old job!! That was my initial intention, to receive SS until the fall of 2012 when my youngest is in school full time and I could return to work. Now, realistically, if I could train for and acquire a new position that would allow me to be self-sufficient in the same amount of time (and no, not necessarily in the same manner), that would be wonderful. To do so would require a higher amount of support (and a lot of work on my part). I have not yet looked into what courses or their duration.