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  • Bird Nesting Custody Arrangement

    Just separated after of several months of limping along. Sitch W 42 me 44 3boys 12,10,8. Married 8 years, together 12

    We have a nesting custody arrangement - kids stay in house and parent take weekly turns living at house.50-50 access custody. Any one with experience with this? Have read of some working. We have rented an apartment and will take turns at that as well.

    No Separation agreement yet - verbally agreed to nesting arrangement, and equalizing net incomes to equally split common expenses 50/50, and all child related expenses. W will pay me each month as is larger income. Have looked at cs tables and approximates the grid difference for incomes. If we get a separation agreement will this agreement have to be based on the cs and ss tables or can we mutually decide as we have done so far??

    W has summers off and will have access to kids most of summer while I am at work. Does this effect 50/50 access %age calculation, if arrangement gets tense.

    Wife has defined govt pension - teacher. Any experience in getting value of this, as well as a eligible retiring gratuity based on accumulated sick days, for equalization payment? Cost of an actuary to do this?

    Is house valued at separation date, or date of sale, if on spouse buys out other?

    SJC

  • #2
    SJC,

    welcome to the forum.

    Its nice to see that you and your estranged spouse have still trust for one another and have been able to put your differences aside and be successful in what appears to be an amicable arrangement for the children.

    Generally, child support in your situation is the difference of what each party would pay each other. Offset amount. Take the notional amount that each would pay to the other using the tables as a reference and subtract the difference. This would be considered reasonable amount.

    The value of the matrimonial home is usually taken on the date of separation. How many people actually go out and have the property appraised by a professional appraiser(not a real estate agent) Very few I believe. You and your spouse could also negotiate the value of the property.
    If one of the parties decides to keep the property, the value is shared equally between the parties. Closing costs are irrelevant and the party that keeps the property absorbs this expense in their share of the equalization.

    There are many ways to value a pension. It is a science in itself. Moreover, Teachers do get a cash value on sick days, at retirement. I am not sure how you would put a future value on this for equalization purposes. What if your spouse got really ill, and used up all the sick leave before retirement?

    You mentioned a difference in salary, but never mentioned spousal support is this a issue? When you say together for 12 years does that mean living together in a relationship of some permanence?

    I suspect you may be entitled to spousal support with first consideration to support of the children and section 7 expenses. Hard to comment further without knowing incomes.

    It appears though that you and your ex spouse have come to some terms. which is really good and you both appear to be really child centered. I came to that conclusion with the nesting arrangement alone.

    lv

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks so much for the advice.

      To clarify a couple of queries - common law for a little over 4 yrs prior to marriage of almost 8 yrs- total common law and marriage 12 years.

      Re spousal support - W gross income approx $21,000 greater. I understand calculation can involve several factors and not clear cut grid amount as with child support. Is it possible to calculate without professional involvement? If I request less than net of tax spousal support allowable than is it necessary to call it spousal support? - goal is to equalize net pays. Do we need to distingish as child support and spousal support? I realize ss is taxable and cs not. Should this be reviewed annually?

      Could you comment on 50 -50 custody access %age applicability if spouse cares for children during summer vacation months during the days while I am at work. Does this affect the %age calculation if custody arrangement comes into dispute.

      House appraisal - if get the house appraisal at separation date and decide to buy say in a years time, would selling spouse not want to have appraisal more recent to reflect current value? I was not clear from your comment why appraisal at separation date was required? Does selling spouse have to sell at separation date value?

      SJC

      Comment


      • #4
        SJC,

        Spousal Support is generally on the needs and means basis and is pretty much no fault. However support of children is paramount. There is spousal support advisory guidelines (not Law) however, it appears courts are awarding and referencing the advisory guidelines often. I am currently working on a spousal support calculator model with child support. Not quite there yet.

        "From the advisory guidelines"

        The basic formula used in the spousal support advisory guidelines with child support is this

        The Basic With Child Support Formula

        (1) Determine the individual net disposable income (INDI) of each spouse:
        • Guidelines Income minus Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions = Payor’s INDI
        • Guidelines Income minus Notional Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions Plus
        • Government Benefits and Credits = Recipient’s INDI


        (2) Add together the individual net disposable incomes. Determine the range of spousal support amounts that would be required to leave the lower income recipient spouse with between 40 and 46 percent of the combined INDI.

        Duration under this basic with child support formula also reflects the underlying parental partnership rationale. Initial orders would be indefinite in form, subject to the usual process of review or variation. There would, however, be outside time limits on the cumulative duration of spousal support, which would structure the process of review and variation. There are two tests for duration and whichever produces the longer duration will apply:


        • First is the longer-marriage test, which is modeled on the maximum duration under the without child support formula, i.e. one year of support for every year of marriage, and which will likely govern for most marriages of ten years or more.

        • The second test is the shorter-marriage test, which sets the outside time limit for support at the time that the last or youngest child finishes high school and which will typically apply for marriages under ten years. In these shorter-marriage cases, there will likely be review conditions attached. Relatively few cases will reach this outside time limit and those that do
        will likely involve reduced amounts of top-up support by that time.

        Shared and split custody situations require a slight variation in the computation of individual net disposable income, as the backing out of child support obligations is a bit more complicated. There is also a different formula for cases where spousal support is paid by the custodial parent. Under this formula, the spouses’ Guidelines incomes are reduced by the grossed-up
        amount of child support (actual or notional) and then the without child support formula is applied to determine amount and duration.

        For the summer months of the children's vacations if one party is looking after the child less than 40% of the time then I would think that full tabled child support should be paid for the child.

        Generally the matrimonial home's value is taken at separation date. However in your circumstance the matrimonial home is being used as a nesting home, with both parties contributing to the upkeep. It is logical to me that the value should be taken when the home is no longer used as a nesting home for the children. I could be wrong, this is just an opinion.

        lv

        Comment


        • #5
          You also asked about others with experience in the "nesting" arrangement. If you can make it work, that's great. As life goes on, however, you might find that you want your own space and not space shared with your ex. I suspect that any new relationships might also be strained by this arrangement. I certainly wouldn't want to live half-time in the same place my ex lived. You still have all those domestic issues to deal with together - house cleaning, paying bills etc.

          I tried that arrangement for a few months. It didn't work in my case. I am much happier the way it is now - my life is my life and except for the kids, the decisions I make are based on my views and those of my girlfriend.

          I would suggest that the nesting might be a good transitional approach that may make the short term easier but, in the long run, you might find that you just want your own space and significantly more indelendence from your ex.

          Best of luck to you.

          Comment


          • #6
            How has it worked out

            I realize that this thread is a bit old, but hoping the original poster still follows it -

            I would be very curious to hear how things worked out for you. I am now facing a very similar situation myself.

            Married 11 1/2 years, 2 kids 7 & 10, wife is a teacher...been limping along for months and now heading to the next stage and considering a bird-nesting scenario also.

            Would very much be interested in your experience.

            Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Nesting Arrangement

              I have been living in a nesting arrangement for close to a year now.
              I find it is working very well with my kids. I am looking forward to moving out of this arrangement but ex is looking to alter the pre-agreed to custody arrangement.
              As mentioned by someone else, there is stress when it comes to division of household chores. I am the boys Father and take time every week (both coming in and leaving) to ensure that they have a clean house to be in.
              All in all though, I find it is a good transition for the kids.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the update. Wife and I have discussed this as a serious possibility. We were both seperately attracted to the idea. But as we started to try and see how the details would work out and received some advice from professionals, we dropped it for the more traditional 2 homes scenario. We will live very close to each other (2 blocks away) so hopefully this will help with the transition

                Comment

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