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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 10-24-2010, 08:52 PM
northbaydad72 northbaydad72 is offline
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Default Spousal/Child Support advice

Hello all, I am seeking some advice on spousal support and some clarification on child support. A quick history, we separated after 7 years of marriage and I moved out in March this year. Since then, due to our work schedules we have had a very flexible schedule as to who has the kids and when. For the most part it has been evenly split except they mostly spend the night with her. We have recently seen a mediator at the request of her lawyer, I do not have on and hopefully will not have to get one. The meeting did not go so well from her point of view as she wants to relocate with the kids to Edmonton from Ontario where we currently live and the mediator told her chances were almost nil given all the facts. We are in the process of ironing out all the details, custody, finances etc, working towards joint custody with a 50/50 residency split

My plan which I have discussed with her is to sell the house and split it 50/50 (her idea) then buy a new one in same area so kids can go to same school I have no issues living near her if it makes life better for kids. There are plenty of homes in the area that would be about a $600 a month mortgage (assuming we get what we would be selling the house for and use that for down payments), down from the current $1200 a month mortgage

Financially it looks like this

I make $61,704 a year, before taxes.

She owns a small business and teaches piano as well. She showed a loss on her taxes the last few years, not exactly the truth but I cannot prove anything without causing a lot of grief for all. She also has a new yearly source of income which started this year of $13,000, which will probably be up to $15,000 next year.

Since I left I have continued to send a monthly sum of $2000, this was roughly a 50/50 split of the monthly household cost(mortgage RESPs, insurance, etc), to her account to keep the household running, not because of a court order but because without it she would have been out of the house and I was trying to do the decent thing

That $2000 a month is roughly broken down as this

$200 - RESPs
$360 - Car payment, in the process of changing it over to my name then will adjust accordingly
$100 - car insurance, changing that to my name as well
$100 – insurance policy for the kids
$1000, child support, slightly higher than the $926 table amount but who is counting,
This leaves $340 which I guess you could call spousal support for arguments sake.

So now for the questions, when we go to the 50/50 split, week on, week off schedule will I still be required to pay child support?

Secondly, how much and for how long for spousal support? I have been researching it and reading the SSAG and have not really settled on something that would be fair.

Depending on if I am still paying child support or not I was thinking of offering $600-$800 a month for two-three years.

Not sure if it matters but she is also getting half my pension for the years we have been together, i am in the process of sending away for that information.

Or maybe splitting the sale of the house 60/40 and offering $300-$500 a month for two-three years. I am trying to interpret the SSAG and come to a reasonable offer considering, need and entitlement, if it matters she is a university educated very intelligent woman is highly employable, she is 38 years old as well. Any advice you can offer would be great, I don’t want to have a lengthy battle over this issue(wishful thinking maybe) so I want to offer something fair. Thank you.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:17 PM
raven70 raven70 is offline
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Default spousal support

Hi North Bay Dad, your note caught my eye because I am also Dad in North Bay. I have been through the court 5 times in N.B and have a good understanding now of the spousal support issue. You seem very reasonable and the spousal guidelines are calculated for with or without child support being
payed. Your situation from my prespective will not have child support. I would suggest to find someone with the divorce mate software and this will give you the exact figure. From my research and my calculations you would be paying more than the offer you are thinking about,alot more. Some advice if I may offer, avoid going to court on the issue, consider a lump sum payment to avoid spousal support if possible, and her employability will be noted if it went to court but my opinion is you would pay 1200-1400 indefinitly with a review in 3 years time, that is just from my experience. The pension does not matter.
If your able to negotiate that would be beneficial, wish you the best
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:50 AM
representingself representingself is offline
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I would think that due to the discrepancy in income levels, that even if the offest method was implemented, you would still end up paying near guideline child support.. Plus proportionate share of section 7 expenses.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:07 AM
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NBDad NBDad is offline
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Quote:
She owns a small business and teaches piano as well. She showed a loss on her taxes the last few years, not exactly the truth but I cannot prove anything without causing a lot of grief for all
If she pushes to court, you'll want to get an income inputted for her. You can't write off a loss for more than 3-5 years on your taxes without raises eyebrows at RevCan. Court is NOT going to accept 0 as an income, and neither should you.

If she is univeristy educated, check your local job boards to see what she *COULD* be making.

Quote:
Your situation from my prespective will not have child support
Your perspective is dead wrong. Here's the nuts and bolts of it...you cannot sign away CS easily. It's the CHILDREN'S right, not yours or the ex's. You WILL have to pay, though you would use what's called the "offset" method. Search the forums here and you will get a crap ton of hits on the explanation.

You'll also be responsible for a proportional share of special expenses.

Spousal support is tricky...avoid it if you can, if you cannot DO NOT do lump sum. Here's why....a monthly amount of SPOUSAL SUPPORt can be claimed on your taxes, so you'll get a small tax break on them. A lump sum amount does not qualify for this.

Write in a timeframe for spousal....it's generally 6 months to 1 year per year of marriage. Offer up like 3.5 years of spousal if you have to, but PUT A TERMINATION DATE ON IT.

Quote:
$200 - RESPs
$360 - Car payment, in the process of changing it over to my name then will adjust accordingly
$100 - car insurance, changing that to my name as well
Can't force someone to contribute to RESP's, gets those other two items switches ASAP. (Expect possible trouble from the insurance co)

Quote:
$100 – insurance policy for the kids
You will wind up paying a proportional share of this.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:35 PM
raven70 raven70 is offline
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The lump sum offer that you make her can reflect that you would be receiving a tax credit and therefore a termination date on spousal would not be a future concern. I tried this route but my ex's lawyer was not willing to do this. Also yes I agree with NBdad regarding a termination date if you can, but the reality is that the court will set a review date in the future which may mean it could terminate, continue, or change in quantom.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:51 AM
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Kenny Kenny is offline
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That is exactly what I did. I was divorced in NB and have had support issues in NB and in Ottawa. A lump sum offer was attractive to the ex. Notwithstanding her lawyer's advice not to take it, she did, then spent it quickly, but I was off the hook.

I envy the 50/50 child custody situations. My ex and I lived in two difference cities, therefore that was not available to me.

One final point, from what I have seen, 50/50 custody does not always mean no child support. Another one of family law's unique peculiarities!
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:01 AM
northbaydad72 northbaydad72 is offline
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Thank you all for the replies and advice. I am back again with another question, the same question really but with extra info. With regards to her income, I have read that there is inputed incomes used to determine these matters and even thought she showed a loss on her income from last year she has been earning minimum $2000 a month. This I know because as mentioned in my early post it is the split of the household monthly cost and she has been covering her half, so with that I put her at $24,000 a year income plus her extra income of $13,000 for a grand total of $37,000. Using her tax returns from last year, she would qualify for the $735.99 in CCTB, $8800 per year, now I think with split residency we could share that but given that I make more she can have it. So if added up she is making about $45,800 a year realistically before taxes to my $61,704 per year. So my question is with 50/50 shared residency, what kind of numbers am I looking at for CS and should I even be paying SS, if anyone has access to the divorcemate software?? it would be greatly appreciated, Again thanks for your replies.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:02 AM
northbaydad72 northbaydad72 is offline
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Hello folks me again. Since my last post I have been doing more research and reading up on the laws and such including the SSAG, Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines and maybe it's just wishful thinking but by my calculations I don't think I should be paying any SS and only offset CS of $246. I roughly calculated her INDI at $37,253 and mine at $27,736, only thing I am uncertain about is the "notional" CS figures, using her inputted income of 45,800 her table amount to me would be $680, and my income of $61704 table amount would be $926, the difference $246. In calculating INDI do I use the $680 and $926 figures or $0 for her and $246 for me? Thanks.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:32 AM
Roni Roni is offline
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you sound like a NICE GUY, but nice guys, as I found out, finish last. Don't do the reasonable thing, do the right thing. This is a different ball game from what you remember your spouse to be. Re house, sell it now and split it 50/50. Don't make deals or arrangements. Most importantly hire a good lawyer and get it done right the first time. Good Luck
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