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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:23 AM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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OK, if I am reading this right, the story-line.

1. you and ex moved out west together, possibly for ex's work (I don't know, seems like a likely assumption).

2. things don't work out, you move back to NWO with the kids.

3. some time thereafter the ex moves back to NWO (likely to be close to the kids or who knows what, it could've been the job ran it's course it is irrelevent). NWO is where the children have lived the majority of their lives.

4. you move back out west with the kids stating that it may be temporary, but you don't know.

5. you decide to remain out west permanently, the ex objects and and files a motion to have the kids returned to NWO.

If this is remotely close to what happened, all your ex would have to do is state that he moved back to NWO to be closer to the kids and you moved again, reducing their ability to parent.

You should have gotten his consent. Your unilateral decision to move the kids has caused you this issue. I feel the ex was waiting to see if you were going to move back on your own as you stated you were unsure if you going to stay out west longer than the summer. It may appear you tried to lead him along stating you may move back, but don't know, and then all the sudden decide to stay out there.
  #22  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:44 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
OK, if I am reading this right, the story-line.

1. you and ex moved out west together, possibly for ex's work (I don't know, seems like a likely assumption).

2. things don't work out, you move back to NWO with the kids.

3. some time thereafter the ex moves back to NWO (likely to be close to the kids or who knows what, it could've been the job ran it's course it is irrelevent). NWO is where the children have lived the majority of their lives.

4. you move back out west with the kids stating that it may be temporary, but you don't know.

5. you decide to remain out west permanently, the ex objects and and files a motion to have the kids returned to NWO.

If this is remotely close to what happened, all your ex would have to do is state that he moved back to NWO to be closer to the kids and you moved again, reducing their ability to parent.

You should have gotten his consent. Your unilateral decision to move the kids has caused you this issue. I feel the ex was waiting to see if you were going to move back on your own as you stated you were unsure if you going to stay out west longer than the summer. It may appear you tried to lead him along stating you may move back, but don't know, and then all the sudden decide to stay out there.
That is how I read the "story" as posted as well. Doesn't bold well for the OP if this is the series of events. I can only hope a judge doesn't find it funny either.
  #23  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Pursuinghappiness Pursuinghappiness is offline
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First of all, most "party" fathers rarely go the trouble of filing court orders to have their children returned.

Granted, he should have done it sooner...the 7 months of status quo doesn't help him....but the details are sketchy in your story as it sounds like he was under the impression that you were returning.

There are a lot of things in your postings that are worrisome.


Quote:
I will just ignore it as I am making the smart choices to benefit my child as I see fit.
Problem #1. Making unilateral decisions when this child has two parents.


Quote:
oh I will definitely move back as I have sole custody as my son and do not plan on taking a parenting hiatus at any point of his life.

Also, I was granted sole custody March 2011 with reasonable access granted to the father.
Sole custody grants you the ability to make decisions regarding health, education, religion....however, it does NOT give you the ability to move the child without the other parent's consent. You can easily lose sole custody for engaging in this type of activity as it can now be shown that you aren't working in the best interest of the child by not protecting the relationship he has with BOTH his parents.


Quote:
I went to a lawyer before I left and he said that it would be harder for the father to make me come back that it would be for me to be approved a move.
Very bad legal advice...equally bad moral advice. It lends credence to my earlier premise that you "tricked" your ex into thinking you were coming back.


Quote:
The father is not an EOW father but a "once or twice a month, maybe once every 3 months, depending on his mood and party schedule" kind of father.
I'm assuming you went through a custody assessment of some type. Obviously he was awarded visitation and access regardless of how you regard his lifestyle. He is entitled to that. More importantly, your child is entitled to it.

Quote:
I have been gone from NWO for almost 7 months now. He did know we were leaving. But I had said that I was unsure if we would return at the end of summer or not (I initially returned home to spend time with family in both Manitoba and BC), and was exploring the possibility of returning to Alberta should I get a good job offer, which I did, and which leads us to where we are now.
He is claiming that I insisted I was returning even though I have emails stating that I said I was unsure if whether I would come back or not. He knew we were leaving NWO for over a month before our date of departure. Even when I came back to NWO to get some of my remaining things, he didn't make an effort to see his child. He has called his son twice in the last 7 months. He blames this on me due tot he fact that I didn't have a phone. But I still had skype (which he never set up, despite it being brought up) and I only was out of a phone for a month and a half
.

Part of your issue is that he can easily make the argument that you were "baiting" him...ie, suggesting that you may be returning soon. Its foolish on his part to not have immediately have filed an emergency motion and had your sole custody called into question...but he still has an argument because I have a feeling he's got emails showing some culpability on your part.


Quote:
I really hope it is a threat because the quality of life for my son has improved vastly since moving back to AB. A safe neighborhood that has many kids his age, a wide selection of schools and activites, and better access to family members. (fathers family live in NWO also, but rarely made an effort to see my son, leaving him with less family there than he has now)
Again, it sounds like this father wants to be involved in his kid's life. Its really strange that you don't understand how damaging it can be to a child to not have access to both of their parents. Shrugging off this child's father for yourself is fine...shrugging him off for your child is NOT in the best interest of the child. You need to do some reading on how this could affect the longterm emotional and mental health of your child if you care about him.

Quote:
I know I am at fault for not having in writing, his consent for my move. But he is so hot/cold that I knew that even if he signed it, he could later twist it into a lie, that I forged his signature, etc. He is a pathological liar, "will do anything just to ruin my life, as he feels I ruined his by having this child. " his words, not mine.
Again, he is your child's father. In the heat of battle, people say a lot of things to/about each other. The material point is that its clear that this person wants to have access to his child.

It doesn't sound like this is about "ruining your life"...it sounds like its about not "ruining your kid's life." And if you care about your child...it should be a common goal for both of you.

My suggestion is to work with him to find a logical way to bridge the distance gap so that he can be a father to his child and so that you don't look like such a villian to your own son in the future when he figures out why his dad isn't around. There's a lot of potential agreements you could make to potentially stay where you are but to ensure visitation for the kid's sake...and frankly, you should be picking up the tab for that.

A good parent loves their kid more than they hate their ex...and does the right thing for their longterm physical and emotional health.
  #24  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:00 PM
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Glad to see PH back on the site!
  #25  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:15 PM
calgarymom57 calgarymom57 is offline
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Okay, I am not the best at laying things out in words. but these are the facts.

1. Child was conceived in Alberta, we were separated before I found out I was even pregnant. Got back together when i was 5 mths preg. He abandon me at 7 months so I moved to my hometown in MB to have the child.

2. Moved back to alberta when the child turned 6 months. 2 months after I returned, father left town to find work (was unemployed for over a year previously)

3. Father left July 2009, but started employment on Oct 2009. Then enters rehab Dec of the same year. leaves after 28 days.

4. upon seeing a change in the fathers behavior, I move to his hometown with the child ( in northwestern Ontario) as he says he will be getting work there in the near future. I am also close to my exes family as they claim to be involved in the childs life despite the fathers lack of interest.

5. father is fired from 3rd job in 3 years. Says his next job is in NWO. (rougly sometime in May 2010) Still has 2 others jobs (both in northern alberta and yukon territory, he is a laborer for oil feilds/mines)

6. I had been in NWO for 2 years, still waiting for the day when the father becomes more involved. Now the ties I once had with the exes family are cut, at my exes request, thus restricting the child from spending time with his paternal family. I decide that since the child sees his father as much now as he did when we lived in the western half of the country, that I would move back to where my home was (Alberta) so that I could have the child closer to my family, some members of his paternal family and the close friends I had from living in Alberta previously. I had also given him the opportunity to make plans to arrange for visitation. I adamantly stated that I did not want the relationship to suffer and that I would be willing to accomodate his requests as long as they were handled in a manner that was respectful of the child. No requests were ever made.

7. Father moves back to NWO right as I plan on heading home for the summer. (at the time of departure, my move was only temporary. I went home to spend time with my dad as I was granted a LOA from my job in NWO. It wasn't until mid-summer that I decided to make the move permanent, upon which I promptly informed the father.)

Keep in mind that the father had moved to NWO almost 2 years after I had initially gone there. He claims that this is the first time he has held a job that has given him time to spend with his son. He neglects to have anyone look at the time he spent unemployed (summer of 2010 for roughly 3 months) where he saw his son rarely. (maybe once a month for a couple of hours per visit). Now he hasn't held a job for over a year in over a decade. So my issue is that I could have my child shipped back there, only to have the father get fired yet again, and then that leaves me to move, yet again. I am sick of moving around at his request. It is not fair to the child.
  #26  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:26 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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I don't think there is any further advice that can be given... there is no justification to what you did. If the father does not work, that is NOT grounds for him not seeing his child... CS and access are not related, other than the fact that if he has the child less than 40% of the time he pay full CS... but even if he doesn't pay CS, doesn't mean he does not get access.

You need to understand how this will look on you in court... Father moved to where you were residing with the child, and then you move to another province. By your own post, you state that when you left, it was for a LOA, NOT permanent. At that time, father could not do anything, as courts do not act on what ifs... had he filed a motion for the child to return, you would have simply argued that you told the father this was not permanent and was more of a vacation. The father had to wait until you decided for it to be permanent before he could file a motion, which is what he did.

You can try to justify it all you want, but you are in the wrong. You should sit back and think about what others are posting here... there are some VERY knowledgeable people on this forum and often people do not like what they have to say, but the reality of it is, they know what they are talking about and are offering you FREE advice... but advice that is bang on.

If the father has a half decent lawyer, expect to have to move the child back. No one is stopping you from staying where you are, but the child most likely will be return to where the father resides.

If you want to spend thousands of dollars fighting about this in court, go for it, you will however, most likely lose, at which point you have done more harm to your child than you have good... how about compromise, do what is right and put the money you would pay a lawyer/court fees into a nice RESP for your son?
  #27  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 PM
calgarymom57 calgarymom57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
So I am being threatened by my ex, that he is going to have an order filed that states my child be returned to his jurisdiction (in NWO)

I am wondering if anyone has ever filed, or has had to return a child(ren) to the jurisdiction in which they had previously resided. I am not asking for judgement to be passed on me as I am not asking how to be told I'm right or wrong. I am asking for some insight.

How long does one usually have after this motion has been filed. Can I protest it in court first? Or would I have to return to NWO to prove that being out west is in the best interest of my child? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. And if I see any "why would you move your child across the country?" I will just ignore it as I am making the smart choices to benefit my child as I see fit.
I feel like no one even read the first post I made, and are just making assumptions to why I make my decisions. Re-read this before continuing to attack me.

It's definitely my fault for coming to a forum for advice. Nothing but a bunch of scorned trolls still bitter about their trials and tribulations, taking out their anger on anyone with a similar case to theirs...
  #28  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Please show me where people are attacking you?

I have never been to court, I do not have a similar situation as you do... But your questions were answered...

There were 2 posters who sucessfully had their children returned, immediately... What other answers are you looking for?
  #29  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:39 PM
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You seem to be dealing with a totally irresponsible ex who has, until now, shown very little interest in his baby. You tried to work with him and finally you did what you felt was in your childs best interest because you need to settle somewhere and plant some healthy roots without allowing someone like him to dictate how you live your life. You have just gone about it the completely wrong way. I would take NB Dad's advice and try to back peddle a bit and fix what you have done by making some sort of deal.

Best of luck.
  #30  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:22 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
Okay, I am not the best at laying things out in words. but these are the facts.
By your own admission against interest you are not able to communicate and you are the primary caregiver/sole custodian to this child?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
1. Child was conceived in Alberta, we were separated before I found out I was even pregnant. Got back together when i was 5 mths preg. He abandon me at 7 months so I moved to my hometown in MB to have the child.
Irrelevant to the matter at hand. I highly recommend you retain counsel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
2. Moved back to alberta when the child turned 6 months. 2 months after I returned, father left town to find work (was unemployed for over a year previously)
Irrelevant evidence to the matter at hand again. I highly recommend you retain counsel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
3. Father left July 2009, but started employment on Oct 2009. Then enters rehab Dec of the same year. leaves after 28 days.
Unless he is a danger to the child as designated by a professional who is a registered clinician again, irrelevant possibly. He could have successfully completed the program and be no danger to the child. The fact he went and got help is to his benefit and the child's. He is demonstrating by being in a program he is willing to change and may have despite your constant attack against his person. Not a winning strategy in court just to warn you to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
4. upon seeing a change in the fathers behavior, I move to his hometown with the child ( in northwestern Ontario) as he says he will be getting work there in the near future. I am also close to my exes family as they claim to be involved in the childs life despite the fathers lack of interest.
Irrelevant and a statement of belief for which will be ignored by a judge. This is not evidence but a statement of personal belief and no fact. Also, his employment is not a key element to custody and access. It is just for child support. If he is unemployed then he has more time to spend with the child in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
5. father is fired from 3rd job in 3 years. Says his next job is in NWO. (rougly sometime in May 2010) Still has 2 others jobs (both in northern alberta and yukon territory, he is a laborer for oil feilds/mines)
So, what you are providing is evidence that he is willing to do what it takes to support his family and find employment? His loss of employment could be for all sorts of reasons... One for wanting to be involved with the child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
6. I had been in NWO for 2 years, still waiting for the day when the father becomes more involved. Now the ties I once had with the exes family are cut, at my exes request, thus restricting the child from spending time with his paternal family. I decide that since the child sees his father as much now as he did when we lived in the western half of the country, that I would move back to where my home was (Alberta) so that I could have the child closer to my family, some members of his paternal family and the close friends I had from living in Alberta previously. I had also given him the opportunity to make plans to arrange for visitation. I adamantly stated that I did not want the relationship to suffer and that I would be willing to accomodate his requests as long as they were handled in a manner that was respectful of the child. No requests were ever made.
So you made a unilateral decision to move. Please see the above cited case law on parents who conduct themselves in this way and ignore the CCC and CLRA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
7. Father moves back to NWO right as I plan on heading home for the summer. (at the time of departure, my move was only temporary. I went home to spend time with my dad as I was granted a LOA from my job in NWO. It wasn't until mid-summer that I decided to make the move permanent, upon which I promptly informed the father.)
I hope your affidavit has this paragraph verbatim in it. It would just make the judge's job so much easier when applying the above mentioned case law to make a proper judgement and save tax payers a lot of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarymom57 View Post
Keep in mind that the father had moved to NWO almost 2 years after I had initially gone there. He claims that this is the first time he has held a job that has given him time to spend with his son. He neglects to have anyone look at the time he spent unemployed (summer of 2010 for roughly 3 months) where he saw his son rarely. (maybe once a month for a couple of hours per visit). Now he hasn't held a job for over a year in over a decade. So my issue is that I could have my child shipped back there, only to have the father get fired yet again, and then that leaves me to move, yet again. I am sick of moving around at his request. It is not fair to the child.
Again, all irrelevant. Habitual residence was set upon the court order you have in hand. You can't just forum shop like this. Please see the above cited case law on how the court could potentially rule in this matter.

Your argument keeps getting worse. You are claiming people are not "reading" your messages. In fact, PH has demonstrated in great detail that they have been. I highly recommend you read her response a few times over prior to continuing down this path as you are putting your child's best interests at risk.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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