Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Driving me INSANE

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Mess View Post
    Keep in mind that only about 4% of cases that start out in family court ever make it to trial. That also doesn't include people who manage to settle without filing. The cases you find on Canlii are only a percentage of trials, not all of them are published. So just because you don't see something similar to your situation doesn't mean you will be paying spousal support.


    Your CL relationship would not be considered long, and your arguments are:
    1. She worked throughout the relationship and she was not in any way disadvantaged by it.
    2. She benefitted from your contributions to the home.
    3. She is fully employed and self-supporting.
    Regarding CS remember that you are not just going to pay until she is 18. If she goes to post-secondary, then you will be supporting for another 4 years, and be paying probably roughly half (going by your incomes) of her tuition and expenses. Make sure you are happy to do this.

    If the child refuses contact with you, this is grounds for ending CS, even if In Loco Parentis can be shown. If you are fond of her and she is willing to send you an email every now and then and you want to do this, then by all means go ahead. I completely respect that, and as she grows up she will look back and respect it too.

    If she goes to post-sec you have every right to copies of tuition and expense receipts. She should be contributing at least a third of the cost. You and the mother should be splitting the rest proportionate to income.

    Just be aware what you are signing up for before you admit anyone is entitled.

    yes Thanks Mess...I realize the post secondary and the S.7 expenses..also discussed during the 4 way...apparently the daughter is taking a year off HS and then deciding if she wants to attend local college (hairdressing course to be honest)...

    My lawyer and I have asked for the proof of acceptance into local college..when and if she goes, we'd like to see proof of her marks, attendance, etc...

    during all this, the STBX and her lawyer have stated that when her daughter is out of school, the SS should increase until the daughter returns to school...if she doesn't go to college, the SS stays at the higher range of the divorcemate guielines.

    lol...it's truly an EVIL EVIL mess..FUBAR for sure!!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Leviathan View Post
      my lawyer is quite comfortable thinking we're gonna benefit outta all this..of course she's gonna tell me that, right??
      From what you describe I agree with your lawyer.

      It's good that you have receipts. Write it up. In this case if you need help, talk to an accountant, not a lawyer. But basicly, any work you did, you write it up as though you were a contractor and invoicing. For furniture, you total the original cost. You note that you were not married and this is not equalization of assets. This a total of the direct amount that she benefitted from the relationship.

      Front page, summary description and totals of amounts. Next sections, detailed invoice for work and materials, and detailed list of items and costs. Next section, an appendix list of all receipts. Next section, photocopies of all receipts. Do it yourself and you just saved about $2000 in lawyer fees.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Leviathan View Post
        I've also been told that if I take the STBX off the plan before case conference or settlement meeting, this could be viewed as being negative and malicious
        After a 26 year marriage my stbx took me off his plan a few months after we seperated. His company pays for his coverage, no cost to him, he had a new place, new address. There was never a discussion that this was negative or malicious in any 4 way meeting or mediation.

        He did not inform me that he had taken me off his plan, I missed the 30 day grace period of continuing coverage with another plan and had to wait 6 months before I was covered again.

        I include the cost of a health care plan everytime we discuss budgets, nobody bats an eye at this.

        For the kids medical expenses, what isn't covered by his plan, he covers under his health spending account. We pay proportionate to our incomes any expense before he runs it through his health spending.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mess View Post
          Rawluk v. Rawluk, [1990] 1 SCR 70

          About constructive trusts.
          you know what kind of scares me with this case Mess...the fact that it's much older...the family Law act of 1986??...hasn't it changed quite abit since then??

          forgive my lack of knowledge on family law matters...but are these type of past previous cases still looked upon in more recent decisions??

          can this case here really be referred to with a CL relationship??

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Leviathan View Post
            during all this, the STBX and her lawyer have stated that when her daughter is out of school, the SS should increase until the daughter returns to school...if she doesn't go to college, the SS stays at the higher range of the divorcemate guielines.

            lol...it's truly an EVIL EVIL mess..FUBAR for sure!!
            After a 26 year marriage, I had part time jobs but not a career, arbitration awarded spousal at the mid point between low and mid range, will be reviewed in 2 years. Arbitrator wouldn't even consider high range and the difference in our incomes is very, large.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Leviathan View Post
              during all this, the STBX and her lawyer have stated that when her daughter is out of school, the SS should increase until the daughter returns to school...if she doesn't go to college, the SS stays at the higher range of the divorcemate guielines.
              When the daughter is out of school she ceases to be the 'child of the marriage'. You are no longer responsible for support. If the daughter wishes some help to get through college you indicate that she is welcome to approach you and ask.

              You state that entitlement to spousal support has not been shown. If spousal support is payable, the amount is set according to that entitlement, it does not go up. You insist on locked in end date.

              At the case conference any order made must be on consent, other than proceedural orders like requiring disclosure. Be very careful about what you agree to. There will be a lot of pressure to agree to a settlement.

              The judge plays a special role here. On the one hand they should indicate what you would expect the result of a trial would be (assuming that all the arguments are accepted at face value; at a trial there is still cross examination.) On the other hand they will suggest a compromise between you so that you stay out of court.

              If you go in ready to pay $500 a month spousal, and the ex wants $1000, the compromise may $750. If you go in with a position that entitlement is not shown and that the ex is self-supporting already, then your starting position is $0 and a compromise would be $500.

              I hope you see what I am driving at here. The judge will try to persuade to bend, and you should be ready to bend and settle. However if you are already bending and considering support, then you shouldn't be made to bend further. Keep your starting position very low, and make then persuade you to meet in the middle.

              Absolutely insist on a firm, fixed end to support (if there is entitlement). You should not consent to indefinate support if you are ready to settle. For an 11 year relationship, support should be no longer than 5 years.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Leviathan View Post
                you know what kind of scares me with this case Mess...the fact that it's much older...the family Law act of 1986??...hasn't it changed quite abit since then??

                forgive my lack of knowledge on family law matters...but are these type of past previous cases still looked upon in more recent decisions??

                can this case here really be referred to with a CL relationship??
                This is the important precedent that more recent case are based on. A search shows 128 cases have cited this one as precedent.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
                  After a 26 year marriage my stbx took me off his plan a few months after we seperated. His company pays for his coverage, no cost to him, he had a new place, new address. There was never a discussion that this was negative or malicious in any 4 way meeting or mediation.

                  He did not inform me that he had taken me off his plan, I missed the 30 day grace period of continuing coverage with another plan and had to wait 6 months before I was covered again.

                  I include the cost of a health care plan everytime we discuss budgets, nobody bats an eye at this.

                  For the kids medical expenses, what isn't covered by his plan, he covers under his health spending account. We pay proportionate to our incomes any expense before he runs it through his health spending.
                  ok, thanks Frustrated...something to keep in mind..

                  again..as others have said here in this thread..the STBX's lawyer is just playing hard ball..

                  me??...not having been through this in this ectent before, it's really throwing me for a loop..I mean holy oh C****T!!...there's alotta demands and wishes and threatening..it's childish really!!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mess View Post
                    When the daughter is out of school she ceases to be the 'child of the marriage'. You are no longer responsible for support. If the daughter wishes some help to get through college you indicate that she is welcome to approach you and ask.

                    You state that entitlement to spousal support has not been shown. If spousal support is payable, the amount is set according to that entitlement, it does not go up. You insist on locked in end date.

                    At the case conference any order made must be on consent, other than proceedural orders like requiring disclosure. Be very careful about what you agree to. There will be a lot of pressure to agree to a settlement.

                    The judge plays a special role here. On the one hand they should indicate what you would expect the result of a trial would be (assuming that all the arguments are accepted at face value; at a trial there is still cross examination.) On the other hand they will suggest a compromise between you so that you stay out of court.

                    If you go in ready to pay $500 a month spousal, and the ex wants $1000, the compromise may $750. If you go in with a position that entitlement is not shown and that the ex is self-supporting already, then your starting position is $0 and a compromise would be $500.

                    I hope you see what I am driving at here. The judge will try to persuade to bend, and you should be ready to bend and settle. However if you are already bending and considering support, then you shouldn't be made to bend further. Keep your starting position very low, and make then persuade you to meet in the middle.

                    Absolutely insist on a firm, fixed end to support (if there is entitlement). You should not consent to indefinate support if you are ready to settle. For an 11 year relationship, support should be no longer than 5 years.
                    my CC brief states EXACTLY that!!...IF SS is entitled (and we've put in there that we don't think it should be), we want it set at the low end of the range (which is 242/mth)..which in other words were saying 0-242...nothing above really..

                    as for CS..696/mth (chase after Bio dad cuz he's with FRO right now and is 18,000 in arrears)..for SS, she's looking at 1100/mth...my lawyer and I state no...I'm already paying or my other 2 children AND you have to chase after BIO dad for his share!!..which she's never done

                    I'm just hoping Mess that the Judge sees clearly that she's not entitled to SS at all..if I offer health care (be it on my plan or go out and find something for 150/mth)so be it!!...5 years max!!

                    as for SS...with an 11 year relationship, isnt the range anywhere between 5-11 years ss support??

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      .5 - 1 year of support for each year of relationship. She is self-supporting and if she had never met you and stayed single she would be the same or less than she has now. There is no justification in the first place but certainly no justification for 11 years of support.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hey, and please let us know what your judge says at the conference.

                        I was reading a case last week where a step-dad was in loco parentis and he was therefore paying just partial table, not the full amount.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mess View Post
                          Hey, and please let us know what your judge says at the conference.

                          I was reading a case last week where a step-dad was in loco parentis and he was therefore paying just partial table, not the full amount.
                          Absolutely Mess...it may be a little while but I'll let you know how the case confernce goes next week...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mess View Post
                            .5 - 1 year of support for each year of relationship. She is self-supporting and if she had never met you and stayed single she would be the same or less than she has now. There is no justification in the first place but certainly no justification for 11 years of support.

                            I hear ya!!!...exactly what we have put on the table...it originally started out with the STBX and her lawyer asking for unlimited SS duration. Then FULL CS for her daughter (don't wanna chase bio dad cuz he's deadbeat)..

                            My lawyer immediately took me outta the conference room to talk and basically told me "they're scared and know they have nothing" (and I'm thinking...ok..is she just saying this??)

                            we came back in...offered the extreme lower end of the SS guideline amount MAX (we weren't gonna budge) on a temporary basis of 3-5 years!! CS??..we mentioned that they should look into going after BIO dad and in this case, we'll offer a diminished amount until June of this year.

                            Thats when S**T hit then fan and the STBX and her lawyer basically walked out about 15mins later...there was talk about arrears, etc..

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mess View Post
                              Hey, and please let us know what your judge says at the conference.

                              I was reading a case last week where a step-dad was in loco parentis and he was therefore paying just partial table, not the full amount.
                              Hey Mess and company

                              Just an update of yesterday's cc

                              Where to begin??

                              Spousal..low end of the ssag range (40-400/mth) with a duration of 5-7.5 years
                              With a review in a few years.

                              Child support for her daughter who graduates in June..he commended me for filling in the role of in loco, realizes bio dad is on FRO and is in arrears and on disability so we won't be able to get him in on this (my lawyer and I were arguing that stbx should be fighting and going after bio dad a little harder)

                              Says its like getting blood from a stone so he has suggested cs for her daughter.

                              Because I'm paying cs for my bio 2 already (their in univ) the judge said to opposing council that we should take that into consideration as it'll lower the amount I pay her (because I'll be doing cs for 3 as opposed to her 1). Stbx and her lawyer wanted FULL cs for her daughter.

                              Judge realizes I can't keep the stbx on my health benefits( this has been a major issue since day 1!! i imagine it'll continue through the negotiations too!!) I can keep her daughter on until she no longer becomes a child of the marriage (she's done hs in June with plans of taking a year off before college)

                              Soooo..basically the judge read both our briefs and pretty well told the stbx and her lawyer EXACTLY what my lawyer and i were trying to propose during the 4 way..limited ss and cs with a duration for ss and proof of schooling for her daughter (acceptance in college, recent report card from hs, etc) back to the negations between us 4..

                              After February's 4 way where the stbx and her lawyer walked, my lawyer now wants to keep future negotiations to emails.

                              There's so much more mentioned during the cc, I'm sure I've left out some more info, feel free to ask away..it'll help refresh..I'm just trying to keep things in short hand as to not give away anything "incriminating".
                              Last edited by Mess; 03-12-2013, 08:26 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Not sure why the above post went twice..read the 2nd one, slight corrections to it..

                                Mess, if you have the authority, can you delete the post above that one??

                                Keeps the thread looking cleaner ;p

                                Comment

                                Our Divorce Forums
                                Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                                Working...
                                X