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  • #31
    The one key factor in all of this is guilt.

    We all tend to forget that there are a million famililies where parents weren't divorced and lived happy, loving lives. But they also lived their lives to the fullest ... lots of vacations, eating out, entertainment, fancy designer clothes, nice cars etc with no thought of saving either for their own future or for their kids' education. No one talks about those families' obligations towards the education expenses of their children. Or atleast not in as judgemental terms as those of separated / divorced parents. Heck even financial planners say that you must save for your own retirement at the expense of kids' education if need be because the kids can get education loans ... you can't get a retirement loan.

    While we all want to do the best we can for our kids ... everyone is different. My parents paid for my education so I hope to do everything I can to make sure that I do the same for my kids. It will be difficult for sure, now that i'm separated. But that's part of life. Maybe the kids will have to apply for more scholarships and loans or a local university rather than aim for Harvard or Stanford. We all make accomodations for circumstances.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ottawa_divorce_dad View Post
      While we all want to do the best we can for our kids ... everyone is different. My parents paid for my education so I hope to do everything I can to make sure that I do the same for my kids. It will be difficult for sure, now that i'm separated. But that's part of life. Maybe the kids will have to apply for more scholarships and loans or a local university rather than aim for Harvard or Stanford. We all make accomodations for circumstances.
      Once you are divorced unless you are very wealthy the fact you pay child support and now have a legal obligation (compared to the type of informal obligation in family life) to your children/ex- I feel ethically releases you from paying your children's education. Even though my parents paid my education almost completely - for me I am just going to pay the legal required amounts and tell the kids to ask their mother for the other amounts she took as "child support"

      Considering I was a single earner and destined to be one- hopefully my loser ex gets a proper job and this will actually end up helping me and the kids financially at the cost of her soap opera marathons

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      • #33
        In four years he'll be in a different financial position and is considering paying a portion of her student loans. The last year or so he was very giving and paid over and above his legal obligations for a number of things. Now that hes in a tight financial situation all that goodwill has gone out the door. It doesnt matter what you do, as long as one spouse is unreasonable, it doesnt matter what the other does. My two older sisters had the benefit of my parents being together when they did post sec and had financial support. Dad left and My younger siblings and I had to pay our own way plus living expenses. I resented my father for leaving us for years but looking back, Im proud of myself for being responsible for my own education. Its all in what you teach your kids and divorce makes it easier to paint each other as bad guys which leads one or both susceptible to guilt. What about the parents who lose jobs and suddenly cant pay? Or parents who die with no money? Everybody has choices, kids should be able to depend on their parents but they should also be able to depend on themselves.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
          I've resisted talking in any detail about the details. My ex on the other hand gave the kids a copy of the separation agreement. It didn't work out as bad as it sounds, they then understood how much money was going their way and it made me living in a basement more plausable.

          I too have a daughter going to university this fall. She took a victory lap, finished that in January with the intention of finding a job and saving up. It didn't happen. I know she did walk the mall and hand out applications. But at the same time McDonalds and Tim Hortons were hiring. Last year her summer job was at a one week kids music camp run by my GF.

          I've tried many times to instill in her a work ethic. I have mentioned over and over that I was making my own spending money by 14, buying my own clothes etc. That I paid virtually all of my university, with OSAP and hard work (my parents gave me a hundred here or there). I've encouraged her to treat job hunting like a job - 8 hours a day of effort etc. But I'm afraid her mother's example is still too well set.

          So long story short, she still isn't working. She applied for OSAP just before the deadline. And she thinks it will all magically fall into place. I've already said that I can't afford to do more than I am, and I really can't.

          Luckily my youngest is not following the same path. She got a job with the city last winter working for parks and rec, and though she couldn't find a paying job this summer, she is volunteering at a kids camp. Took her shopping on the weekend on a break from camp and she insisted on paying for her own purchases herself, I offered, she refused. She gets it, at 16.

          Bold 1: That is too common with that age group, they think it's beneath them, and it's not "cool" because there friends or "that boy" might come in and see them working there. Ironically, that odd job is what ends up happing for them when they don't make it to university, and can't sponge of anybody

          Result: Spousal support waiting to happen

          Bold 2: The challenges you faced, is what is happening at the other house that you have no say in. Your efforts are being counteracted by an opposite force of delusion i.e. that things will get given to you.

          Bold 3: This is part of the delusion mentioned above....entitlement to and that things will just happen

          Bold 4: That is admirable that the young one at least isn't following in that downward spiral. I mean to offer at that age to pay her own way, is commendable, and must at least make you proud that you are doing something right

          Result: Unlikely to end up being a spousal support chaser, but instead make self esteem her priority

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          • #35
            Originally posted by childfocused View Post
            Bold 1: That is too common with that age group, they think it's beneath them, and it's not "cool" because there friends or "that boy" might come in and see them working there. Ironically, that odd job is what ends up happing for them when they don't make it to university, and can't sponge of anybody
            Peer pressure can be hard to deal with at that age. If they were raised to take pride in their work (whatever job that may be) they will soon realise that their true friends will be happy for them regardless.

            Mine worked at a fast food place until something better came along. It not only helped pay for part of his tuition, it also gave him a sense of being in control of his own finances.

            This cockeyed way of thinking that certain jobs are 'beneath them' comes from having an exaggerated sense of entitlement - if Mom and Dad always offered them nothing but the best since day 1 - why should that change now that they are adults?

            In the end it's parents that are to blame for the snotty kids? lol!

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            • #36
              Ya my partner said he was ashamed. But he worked three jobs sometimes in the same day to make money for school. His ex comes from money so she did tutoring and typing. The most important thing to discuss before marriage is how youre going to raise your kids.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                Ya my partner said he was ashamed. But he worked three jobs sometimes in the same day to make money for school. His ex comes from money so she did tutoring and typing. The most important thing to discuss before marriage is how youre going to raise your kids.
                Er...I think you might be putting the cart before the horse here so to speak. "The most important thing" before you get involved with someone, is to make sure you can 'communicate' (Read: verbal rational talk, not text msg)

                If you get swept away by looks only as your primary thing, and don't have the will to look past that, you will end up paying the price, but by then it might be too late.

                Peer pressure is a lame excuse for everything for teenagers.....the "peer pressure" was the same when we were growing up or even as far back as our parents. It seems all young girls want to work in the Mall in a clothing or makeup store. The boys in a gadget / electronics store

                Adults that are relying on their ex to look after them, have obviously brought up their kids the same way. So the cycle continues...I mean hard work never kills anybody. If everybody had the same laid back attitude, where would the money for State pension come from?

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                • #38
                  I was thinking that perhaps communication was addressed before the getting married thing. When I say before getting married I mean right up to the "i do" part. I watched two of my siblings have kids and not realize how their partners approached discipline. Then it became a situation of "ok we need to discuss how we raise healthy well adjusted kids not weirdoes who think they're a giant disappointment for not putting their toys away"

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                  • #39
                    Speaking of self esteem and giving kids what they ask for.....just when you think you've seen it all, this comes along.

                    I'll reserve any comments about the final product on the kids, and that other person standing next to the Surgeon.

                    'Our dad gave us matching boob jobs!' Sisters making the most of cosmetic surgeon father's skills (they've also had Botox, nose jobs AND a belly button tuck) | Mail Online

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                    • #40
                      Peer pressure is a lame excuse for everything for teenagers.....the "peer pressure" was the same when we were growing up or even as far back as our parents. It seems all young girls want to work in the Mall in a clothing or makeup store. The boys in a gadget / electronics store
                      I think A LOT of people don't want to work hard jobs or those that they feel are beneath them adults (men and women included) at the end the differential between welfare and minimum wage + hard work is not an incentive.

                      The problem is a lot of people SAHMs and Children have had things given to them that they could never earn on their own so they don't appreciate that level of comfort is a LUXURY based on having a job where you have a useful skill set which only came after hard work and effort.

                      The problem is that we're a very socialized system in this respect and so the law continues to create this entitlement.

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                      • #41
                        Very true.....the age of smartphone owners just keeps getting younger and younger now. I mean we were happy to get sweaters for Xmas, but try that now and it turns into a "disagreement between spouses" or the kids taking the WTH route

                        You think a lot of them even have a clue what a cellphone bill looks like, or how much a single text or data usage cost?

                        The law needs to get its priorities right, and not putting the cart before the horse. The onus is also on us all to give our heads a shake, have a blueprint of what we want our life to look like, and then stick to it giving our head a shake once in a while.

                        The moment we become adults, we have an obligation to look after ourselves, as opposed to looking for somebody to cater for us like we are teenagers again...

                        Back in the days, you propose to someone with what you give them, but now just like Xmas gifts...people are dictating what they want. If that is the case, then why not just go get it yourself...what happens to the "it's the thought that counts"?

                        Oh well, I suppose it's the old "it gets worse before it gets better" saying...hoping

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