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  • No gifts no money, why?

    I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post but here goes...

    I have a son who turned three at the end of May. His dad has never given him a birthday or Christmas gift (I know, he has not had too many in his young life). We split up when I was pregnant. His dad also has another son from his first marriage who is now 12 years of age. As far as I know, he has given him gifts on b-days and Christmases. He did when we were together and he did at least mention to me that he had given him gifts in times after we split. He also does not pay child support and at this point, nothing is needed for anything than that as he doesn't attend a daycare or anything like expensive sports. He does speak with our son on the phone about once a week. Dad lives in another province.

    Anyway, I guess I'm writing asking if anyone has an idea why a parent would be like that--- not give gifts or pay support.

    My son has no idea about no gifts at his age and of course no idea that there has not been any child support. If this continues, what does anyone think would be a good way to answer if my son asks why he didn't get a gift from dad? He's way too young to have any idea about support so I just mean: what could I say to him?

    I'm really hurt by this. I know it's been over two months. I just feel so sad for my boy.

    His dad does work making decent pay so I know he's not unemployed or unable to work.

    Thanks anyone for answering.

  • #2
    He is pretty much required by law to give you child support, especially if the child resides solely with you. If he isn't doing it voluntarily, you can take him to court, and should. Have you never pursued child support? Is he paying for other expenses that he feels might cover the child support obligation? Or, he could just be a jerk. Get a separation agreement in place, with child support provisions, and hopefully he'll start paying. You might be doing okay without the money, but kids get more expensive over time, and it's his responsibility to support his children. You can also go after him for arrears.

    Some people are deadbeats and just want to forget their exes, and any children they had with that person. So they don't pay child support because they consider that phase of their life over, or they hate their ex so much they would deprive the children just to get back at their other parent. But most people understand that they have an obligation and follow through with it.

    Try talking to him and remind him he has a legal obligation. Get a basic separation agreement drafted formalizing your custody arrangement and include his child support being paid as per table. Send it to him as a reasonable offer, and if he refuses, you can take him to court and ask that the cost be paid by him.

    As to why someone wouldn't buy their child gifts at birthdays and Christmas, that sounds like a cultural or psychological issue. He could just be the type of man who leaves gift giving up to the woman, or maybe he is only waiting till the child is old enough to appreciate gifts, maybe he thinks grandparents have spoiled the child with too many gifts already, who knows. It would be very hard to speculate why.
    Last edited by Rioe; 07-09-2012, 12:00 AM.

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    • #3
      Hi thanks for answering.

      We've not been together since I was about 4.5 months pregnant

      I meant its been two months since my son's birthday.

      My ex did pay support to his first exwife but never increased the amount though he makes over double what he agreed to in their original agreement. As far as I know he still pays her.

      I do have an order for child support but he's never paid.

      He does call about once a week.

      He's never given him any gifts

      Why would a parent be like this??

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome to the forum.

        I really think it is important that you do not speculate on why or why not the father of your child gives gifts. If you want to know then ask the father. Getting ample child support is the most important issue - you can buy the child gifts yourself. You split up before the child was born. Gifts are symbolic of affection and it would be a stretch to expect the father of the child to feel a bond or attachment when he isn't in the child's life on a day to day basis.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gladtobesingleagain View Post
          I do have an order for child support but he's never paid.
          Register the order with the FRO and let them deal with the non-payment and collection of support in accordance with the court order. Start the process now.

          Originally posted by Gladtobesingleagain View Post
          He's never given him any gifts

          Why would a parent be like this??
          The question unfortunately is irrelevant. You have expectations for the other parent to parent like you want. That is not how it is going nor how it will go probably now or in the future. Your largest concern should not be "gifts" but, the support as stated by other posters.

          It is hard to speculate why the other parent is not involved? Ordered not to be involved, EOW parent, high conflict, doesn't want to be involved, doesn't care to be involved, etc...

          You love your child and that is what is most important. There are many parent-less children in the world that grow up fine. It takes love to raise a child and not gifts. Giving a gift is not a demonstration of love it is only a demonstration of one's financial well being.

          Maybe, you should consider offering a 50-50 full joint equal access arrangement to get the other parent involved in the child's life if you feel his involvement is that important.

          The best way any parent can demonstrate love and share love is through equal access and joint custody.

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

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          • #6
            Thanks for all the replies everyone.

            I wrote in "divorce Support" section because I know I'm already SOL regarding getting any child support and thus didn't need any legal advice in that vein.

            My order is currently being "enforced". Because he's behind on three years arrears, he's had his credit reported, federal interception, his license withdrawn, passport taken away (whatever the proper term is I'm not sure offhand), they've done traces on bank accounts, properties. There is really nothing else to be done. My ex is self employed and thus just gets a pay cheque ewhich he just cashes at his employers bank and lives off the cash nothing goes to a bank anymore. He already had bad credit so that did nothing, he owes the government thousands in back taxes so perhaps I may see $ when it's time to go on CPP but I doubt there will be not much and I don't think much could be intercepted anyway.
            I
            I've spoken to the agency and basically they were like, yeah, we have thousands and thousands of payors like this. Nothing else we can do. Have a nice life.

            Thanks everyone for giving insight into why he acts like this.

            I was hoping to get some speculation from strangers and your replies have helped me. I think he just wants to get back at me and this is his way in doing it.I guess he doesn't feel attached to him and yes, perhaps I'm expecting him to parent like me...

            I have asked why again has he never sent anything and the response is "yeah yeah I know I should get him something...." then subject change.

            My son is an awesome amazing lil guy....I'm glad you said that kids turn out fine I'm sure he will I'm trying really hard.

            This has been so helpful.

            I'm just going to let it go in terms of letting it bother me and hurt me. I guess in the end he will reap what he's sown in the end.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re-reading your post responses everyone and thank you again. It's been so helpful. Thank you all so much.

              I guess it's much too early to worry about what my son will feel like in the future. I'm not sure how I'll handle it but I'll just try to focus on the positives in his life.

              Thank you all again

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              • #8
                Sometimes you have to help the collection process. He calls you. Does he have a vehicle/insurance? People don't change habits and tend to go to same places, hang with the same people. Do your kid a favor and get information and turn it over to FRO. You need child support - fuck the gifts.

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                • #9
                  Hi Arabian thanks for replying again.

                  Yes I have a cell phone number and address.

                  He does have a vehicle and insurance and I told the enforcement agency twice about the car---make, model, license plate. Basically it sounds to me they won't put a lien on it or revoke his insurance because he needs it to work. They don't put non-payors in jail because then they can't work and pay support. In my situation he pays me nothing and a stint in jail would not hinder receiving nothing in child support. They told me not paying CS is not a crime. That's what I meant when I'm SOL. Though the law says they can put a non payor in jail or put a lien on a car or not renew insurance ---- they just rarely do that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd be questioning the FRO BIG TIME. He hasn't paid so he doesn't deserve to operate a vehicle period. In Alberta they do put people in jail AND take away vehicles. I'm sure Ontario is no different. You probably have to start calling once a week to FRO and try to get them accountable. Just doesn't make much sense to me. As an employer for many years (over 25) I got regular updates all the time about deadbeat parents. I was careful about hiring and checked the list every time we hired someone.

                    My ex is self-employed and if he doesn't pay me they cancel his license. No excuses.

                    Check into it again and for your child's sake don't let him get off the hook on this. Persistence pays off. Yes it is stressful but you have to do what is right for your child. I am quite amazed that you want to have anything to do with this person. You certainly don't sound overly bitter - many people on this forum would applaud you for not threatening no visits with your child for non-payment of support. You are a better person than I am. I wouldn't give him the time of day and would discourage future contact with my child. If he's cheap with his wallet then he will be sure to be cheap with his heart. That is just my personal opinion though. Hope things work out for you.

                    Good luck!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read your post and I feel for you and your son.

                      You are entitled to spousal support and he HAS to pay it. I know in Ontario the payor is legally obligated to pay and I imagine this is the same in any province.

                      If he has a job, he has to file taxes so there is income being recorded somewhere. If he is being paid under the table and hiding the income then you report him to the Canada Revenue Agency and they most certainly investigate him and his employer.

                      Do not take the SOL approach because you are entitled to receive this money. Talk to a lawyer, they will most times give you a free consultation. Fight fire with fire. He is making money somewhere and you will be able to prove it. You need to get him in front of a judge.

                      Good Luck and don't ever take the approach of being shit out of luck. You haven't lost yet. You are right in this case, you've got some work ahead of you though.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arabian View Post
                        I'd be questioning the FRO BIG TIME. He hasn't paid so he doesn't deserve to operate a vehicle period. In Alberta they do put people in jail AND take away vehicles. I'm sure Ontario is no different. You probably have to start calling once a week to FRO and try to get them accountable. Just doesn't make much sense to me. As an employer for many years (over 25) I got regular updates all the time about deadbeat parents. I was careful about hiring and checked the list every time we hired someone.

                        My ex is self-employed and if he doesn't pay me they cancel his license. No excuses.

                        Check into it again and for your child's sake don't let him get off the hook on this. Persistence pays off. Yes it is stressful but you have to do what is right for your child. I am quite amazed that you want to have anything to do with this person. You certainly don't sound overly bitter - many people on this forum would applaud you for not threatening no visits with your child for non-payment of support. You are a better person than I am. I wouldn't give him the time of day and would discourage future contact with my child. If he's cheap with his wallet then he will be sure to be cheap with his heart. That is just my personal opinion though. Hope things work out for you.

                        Good luck!

                        Arabian thanks for replying.

                        Sorry don't know how to quote your post in pieces. I'm as technically savvy as...a garden slug!

                        They have done a "DL withhold" which means he can't renew it. However this happened like a few months after he has just renews it for five years! He's told me he will just drive without one anyway. And w/o insurance (if that happened).

                        I did call two times about the vehicle insurance asking why don't they revoke that...I'm not trying to be a b***h but I'm just trying to see if perhaps the enforcements they do would actually make him start paying. I also mentioned the car (nothing fancy he has no credit so it was not much $ I guess). I also mentioned what's next? Jail? Anything? (desperate)
                        That's when she got snarky and was just telling me that there are real criminals out there who are walking the streets. Jail would potentially ruin any future employment for him.

                        I will take your suggestion in calling more. Honestly when she was (I feel) kinda mean, I have not called. Basically each month more interest accrues more support owed but no CS.


                        Do you (or anyone) think it would really make a difference???



                        He calls once a week to talk to our son. I merely answer it (he's three, too young) and pass it to him. As he's young, so from my end, it's not much of a conversation. He just says phrases. It lasts about five minutes then he's done and I hang up. I do not usually talk to his dad though.

                        He has never once come to visit him. Yet he has friends and family an hour away who I would drive to (with sufficient notice) for a visit.

                        I would label myself very sad over this all...very sad for my lil hero. I just adore him and it's hard for me because I'd do anything for him and his other patent is not that way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry I meant:

                          Do you (or anyone) think it will really make a difference in my case if I were to call them like once a week???

                          Would I just keep enquiring about the insurance and vehicle??? My ex does not own any property beyond his car.

                          Thank you everyone.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Teddie View Post
                            I read your post and I feel for you and your son.

                            You are entitled to spousal support and he HAS to pay it. I know in Ontario the payor is legally obligated to pay and I imagine this is the same in any province.

                            If he has a job, he has to file taxes so there is income being recorded somewhere. If he is being paid under the table and hiding the income then you report him to the Canada Revenue Agency and they most certainly investigate him and his employer.

                            Do not take the SOL approach because you are entitled to receive this money. Talk to a lawyer, they will most times give you a free consultation. Fight fire with fire. He is making money somewhere and you will be able to prove it. You need to get him in front of a judge.

                            Good Luck and don't ever take the approach of being shit out of luck. You haven't lost yet. You are right in this case, you've got some work ahead of you though.
                            Thanks for your reply Teddie.

                            This is what my ex does:

                            He works in the construction. He gets a job and asks that they pay him under his partial business name which is his first and last name. (for pretend, his business name is John Doe Plumber so he has them make it out to simply John Doe)

                            He also asks that they do NOT pay him the HST on his work. He is self employed and he is required to do charge HST and then remit it to government.

                            They make out pay cheque to his partial biz name, w/o HST, and he goes to their bank (e.g, BMO) and pays a fee to have them cash the cheque. The $ never goes into his biz account and he never has anything in his personal. This has to have been going on a long time cuz the enforcement agency said they are looking to freeze his accounts but to date, there has been zilch in any account for them to freeze.

                            FYI: how did he learn how to get paid this way??? An Internet website against all enforcement agencies!! These non-payors look out for each other...


                            All that said....

                            1. Should I inform the CRA of this? As far as I know he continues to be up to his eyeballs in back taxes. However he is supposed to be getting HST and then remitting it.

                            I have his social insurance number and his HST number but like I said he's not getting paid HST.

                            I don't want to be a b****h but it does irk me that he won't pay taxes on all this income and he should be getting paid HST.


                            As far as court, several lawyers told me not to bother pursuing much in that way because, given all the enforcemdnt measures already in place, and the way he's getting paid and the fact he owns no (substantial) property, I would simply get another court order for CS that I would never receive.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No HST required if you invoice for less than $30k - possibly that's why?

                              But I can't see how worrying about that is going to help you.

                              Comment

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