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  • #16
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    Why is the child medicated without a diagnosis? You started out your post about wanting information for court. Well this is a biggie IMO.

    Sometimes our children are not succeeding in school... they are distracted... they have hormonal changes which can have an effect on academic testing. Not a big deal in the large picture considering how long a person is in school. Kids also go through a rebellious stage and those teenage years are really, really difficult for many families.
    '
    You say your son is "struggling" - what specifically is the problem? Focus, irritation, loss of interest? Those are pretty normal things for teenagers. Loss of appetite and weight loss are a physiological issue and can be directly correlated to medication.

    It seems to me that you and your ex need to get on the same page with regards to addressing the issue. This is not related at all to the balance of custody, rather a parenting thing. This has no reflection on the parenting. I think your ex very well might have valid concerns. Too often people are "labelled" has suffering from something without valid, corroborative testing... a doctor's easy way out... a parent's excuse for a child with behavioral issues.... indication for a requirement for tutors. You name it, there exists a plethora of rationale for medication.

    Yes you very well may be correct in thinking your son needs to be on a trial for a new drug. However, without a formal diagnosis I would be hesitant to proceed.

    What, pray tell, is the problem anyhow?
    The problem specifically is with his inattention and focus issues in class. He is not a behaviour issue at all, but has great difficulty focusing on the lesson and staying on task independently. He is generally happy as I have mentioned before; however, I see his confidence dropping as he is not performing as well this year. He is sensitive and sees others able to focus and learn easily and wonders why he cannot. My son himself wanted to go back on the medication this year.
    Believe me, I was extremely hesitant at first. It is a big decision to medicate a child. I work with kids and have seen great benefits so decided to try it for my son. His dad has been supportive until now, which is the troubling part for me. Why let him try a partial trial and then suddenly abort mission? Wanting to wait for an official diagnosis does seem logical I agree, but why then allow your son to be on a drug for over 2 years, with proven results and then pull the plug now?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
      This is not unreasonable. Does he have Inattentive type or Hyperactive type?
      A psycho-educational assessment will provide VERY important baseline data that will determine the correct regime to take.

      We NEVER try a bunch of meds on kids before having one of these completed. It can really mess with their physiology and behaviors. Your ex is correct in this matter.

      I've heard too many cases of Dr's slinging multiple meds on these young kids and the adverse effects have been heavily documented at the schools.

      In my opinion, concerta is the best one to take because it lasts all day...no med administration at school.


      That's strange. Usually with ADHD the symptoms can be seen at home and at school. At school probably a bit more, but all parents I talk to see it at home as well (troubles with selective attention, etc).


      Naaa, he just wants a professional report done to take the right course of action for his children.

      It does indeed sound more and more like he has his material change though.
      So, in your opinion, he can say there is a material change because his son is not doing as well this year at school due to being taken off the medication he was proven to be doing better on previously? Could I not argue that DAD is the one who is CAUSING this "material change" then? I have the doctor's emails about recommending a trial run. I also have proof he never witnessed adverse affects on the increased dose as he did not even see his son during this period. A judge is not going to consider that pretty pertinent?

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      • #18
        To answer you LF, it is inattentive type.
        Also, I should add that I am in the "field" and would have more exposure to affects of medication on kids than my ex would as I deal with kids (MANY are on medication) for a living.
        Ps. I agree with you about Concerta.
        Last edited by Ange71727; 01-17-2017, 08:41 AM. Reason: add comments

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
          What does your agreement say about medical decisions? You discuss but the final decision is up to you if you cant agree? If yes, remind him of that.
          It says decisions are JOINT pertaining to health and well being. I can't make any final decisions.

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          • #20
            Is there a natural remedy he could take in lieu of the medication? Do you have a dispute resolution clause?

            I agree with the others that medication should be a last resort but it doesnt sound like it was a knee jerk reaction on your part and this is a dick move on your ex's part.

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            • #21
              Did you not tell the Dr that your ex hadn't even seen him on the new meds? Is it possible the school communicated with your ex...as they did you, that your child was having issues since the new med? If not, then yes I agree with Rock it was a dick move.

              Remember his emotions are high too though .... you're denying him an equal relationship. As you can see it's causing a lot unneeded tension.

              Perhaps this could go in his favour by him saying he needs to see his kids more to be able to observe these things in order to make proper decision with you.

              Remember how a lot of judges and parents feel now-a-days:

              http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...&resultIndex=8

              In any event, however, it seems obvious that children will establish a healthier relationship with a parent in circumstances which are not artificial; parenting only on the weekends is artificial since life is composed of weekday living as well as of weekend living. Weekday bedtimes, weekday homework, weekday chores are all part of normal living and the children have a right to experience that normal living with their father.
              A byproduct of this is that dad will be able to make more informed decisions about his child, such as meds, etc with a 50/50 regime.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                Did you not tell the Dr that your ex hadn't even seen him on the new meds? Is it possible the school communicated with your ex...as they did you, that your child was having issues since the new med? If not, then yes I agree with Rock it was a dick move.

                Remember his emotions are high too though .... you're denying him an equal relationship. As you can see it's causing a lot unneeded tension.

                Perhaps this could go in his favour by him saying he needs to see his kids more to be able to observe these things in order to make proper decision with you.

                Remember how a lot of judges and parents feel now-a-days:

                http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...&resultIndex=8


                A byproduct of this is that dad will be able to make more informed decisions about his child, such as meds, etc with a 50/50 regime.


                I dont think he was able to think that far ahead. Sounds more like he was stirring the pot and pulling a dick move. Dont give him more credit than he deserves. Disagreeing on a medication is normal but not discussing it with mom before going behind her back to the doctor is ridiculous.

                My partner and his ex have an acrimonious relationship at the best of times and even when he got info about his kid second hand he went to his ex to discuss first before attacking her credibility to the service provider.

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                • #23
                  Do not place much value on the Teachers reports. Once labelled with ADHD they will always want him medicated.

                  Schools work on the numbers game. More children diagnosed with behavioural issues and special needs; more teacher assistants hired for the school. Teachers have huge classes and need help. Teachers do not have time to give children individual time and attention so any " out of the norm" children get labelled.

                  You need a proper diagnosis from a doctor qualified in that field. Until you have that I would likely,think your ex would win any decision to wait on medication until a proper diagnosis is given.

                  Approach your ex and come up with a plan to encourage your child to focus at school. Merit points and positive reinforcement. Work together to improve his school,focus without medication.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                    I dont think he was able to think that far ahead. Sounds more like he was stirring the pot and pulling a dick move. Dont give him more credit than he deserves. Disagreeing on a medication is normal but not discussing it with mom before going behind her back to the doctor is ridiculous.
                    It was my understanding this occurred during his parenting time? Sometimes you just have to call the doctor and do what's best for your kid,at that time. If my child was on medication and she started having random fevers and throwing up, I would take her to a clinic/hospital immediately and call mom to let her know I was there. Whatever the doctor says when they see the child is what goes.That would have been the ideal approach. Calling the doctor and receiving that recommendation in his parenting time to stop the medication is not a whole lot different.

                    And Angie the material change would be that through the passage of time, the child has developed ADHD and is struggling in school. This is not a disputed fact. The child's needs are different than they were 8 years ago.

                    I know I'm kicking a dead horse here but I really think you should consider 50/50 and settling the case, so you can both focus your energy on helping your child. You don't want the conflict to start effecting your son more and more to the point of anxiety and depression in your child. The anxiety you have is obviously going to effect your child's emotional well being. The stress the father feels is going to effect the child as well. You're both taking part in this.
                    Last edited by trinton; 01-17-2017, 10:46 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by trinton View Post
                      It was my understanding this occurred during his parenting time? Sometimes you just have to call the doctor and do what's best for your kid,at that time. If my child was on medication and she started having random fevers and throwing up, I would take her to a clinic/hospital immediately and call mom to let her know I was there. Whatever the doctor says when they see the child is what goes.That would have been the ideal approach. Calling the doctor and receiving that recommendation in his parenting time to stop the medication is not a whole lot different.

                      And Angie the material change would be that through the passage of time, the child has developed ADHD and is struggling in school. This is not a disputed fact. The child's needs are different than they were 8 years ago.

                      I know I'm kicking a dead horse here but I really think you should consider 50/50 and settling the case, so you can both focus your energy on helping your child. You don't want the conflict to start effecting your son more and more to the point of anxiety and depression in your child. The anxiety you have is obviously going to effect your child's emotional well being. The stress the father feels is going to effect the child as well. You're both taking part in this.

                      I think the big thing you are missing though is that he called the doctor, without discussing first with me, and lied about seeing a reduced appetite on the increased dosage. He did not see his son once during the week the dose increased. This is why it's such a "dick move". He literally just didn't show up at my house one day to pick up the medication for the weekend (as was our routine) leaving me having to call him to figure out what was going on. When I inquired with the doc, he told me what my ex's supposed observations were. I did inform him that my ex couldn't have observed this, but the doc was already in an uncomfortable spot and I don't think he was willing to disregard what my ex had told him. A doctor isn't going to assume a parent is lying about their kid.
                      I feel that you are right that he could spin the whole passage of time, ADD business to suggest my son isn't thriving; however, wouldn't he need to convince the judge that being in my care so much more is somehow detrimental to his progress? He is the one who took him off the thing that was helping him progress.



                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                        Do not place much value on the Teachers reports. Once labelled with ADHD they will always want him medicated.

                        Schools work on the numbers game. More children diagnosed with behavioural issues and special needs; more teacher assistants hired for the school. Teachers have huge classes and need help. Teachers do not have time to give children individual time and attention so any " out of the norm" children get labelled.

                        You need a proper diagnosis from a doctor qualified in that field. Until you have that I would likely,think your ex would win any decision to wait on medication until a proper diagnosis is given.

                        Approach your ex and come up with a plan to encourage your child to focus at school. Merit points and positive reinforcement. Work together to improve his school,focus without medication.
                        I agree with you 100%. The mean average in rating school comes into play. Much simpler for schools to have underachievers labelled as 'special needs' so their marks don't bring the school average down. This is a reality. I found out about this myself when a school tried to label my son. Independent testing showed he was of average intelligence but basically not motivated. Had I gone along with school psychologist my son would have been medicated as well. It's really disgusting.

                        There is a solution - tutors.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                          Is there a natural remedy he could take in lieu of the medication?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                            Do not place much value on the Teachers reports. Once labelled with ADHD they will always want him medicated.

                            Schools work on the numbers game. More children diagnosed with behavioural issues and special needs; more teacher assistants hired for the school. Teachers have huge classes and need help. Teachers do not have time to give children individual time and attention so any " out of the norm" children get labelled.

                            You need a proper diagnosis from a doctor qualified in that field. Until you have that I would likely,think your ex would win any decision to wait on medication until a proper diagnosis is given.

                            Approach your ex and come up with a plan to encourage your child to focus at school. Merit points and positive reinforcement. Work together to improve his school,focus without medication.


                            True there is rampant over-diagnosis in the schools. I agree.
                            I disagree that more special needs = more teacher's assistants. I think teachers should be given the benefit of the doubt. I know a few
                            It takes more than the average ADD diagnosis to drive funding for extra help in the classroom. I read the teacher's assessments very carefully and have consulted with them frequently over the years. I could literally show you the marked difference in report card mark and observational progress from one year to the next when not on the meds to starting on them. It was significant for my son. My ex has been informed along the way but maybe doesn't realize the repercussions here. That is my stance.
                            Merit points don't always work in a situation where the child isn't in control of whether they can focus or not. Positive reinforcement is of course good in any situation involving kids.
                            I know medication isn't for everyone....that's a whole different discussion.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
                              The kicker is, my ex didn't see him ONCE on the schedule during the week of the increased dose...

                              Nope, wasn't with dad at all on the new meds. Dad made the call without seeing his kid.

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                              • #30
                                When I inquired with the doc, he told me what my ex's supposed observations were. I did inform him that my ex couldn't have observed this, but the doc was already in an uncomfortable spot and I don't think he was willing to disregard what my ex had told him.
                                Sounds like an amazing case for "Parallel Parenting", Only one of you should be making these decisions if this crap is going on. You sure the school didn't notify of appetite? I think dad may have consulted with them. If not, I suppose its a dick move...or just a concerned parent over administering new meds without the medical go-ahead from a qualified psychologist and assessment. I "kind of" understand this. Did you go ahead with the new meds without consulting him also?

                                A certified psychologist should be the one deciding diagnosis' and a formal psychoeducational assessment should be conducted before meds are given.

                                There are of course cases where meds have been prescribed before all of this but only when there are significant behaviours occurring, which I don't believe is o in your situation.

                                When children's appetite are affected by ADHD meds, it's recommended to eat small portions throughout the day instead of larger ones.

                                Some students we have sit away from the crowd in class at certain points in the day. Some students have earphones (I know it's stigmatic but it works).

                                I use "Therbands" on desks to allow for students to have something to kick. It seems to help them concentrate.

                                The teacher needs to allow for flexibility (allowing longer to complete tasks ; only having to complete half a worksheet), etc

                                I've given some ADHD students study carrels (a private plastic wall around their desk) to minimise distractions while they work.

                                Be sure lessons, instructions and expectations are given "visually". Teachers can't expect inattentive type ADHD kids to get it right away when explained fast and verbally.

                                Anyways, just a few thoughts.

                                =Ange71727;216567]however, wouldn't he need to convince the judge that being in my care so much more is somehow detrimental to his progress? He is the one who took him off the thing that was helping him progress.
                                You will have to convince a judge how dad having an equal relationship will hinder any progress also. Dad will probably have a good case explaining how it will better his progress.

                                (Edit):
                                It sucks that all this case building is occurring. I'm starting to understand judges rulings for shared 50/50 in these situations. It just solves so much.
                                Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-17-2017, 12:27 PM.

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