starting court application and need help..

[thistoshallpass]

This site gives a lot of information on division of property

Property Divorce Laws : Canadian Divorce Laws

[tugofwar]

How will I know that my ex got the court order? Will my lawyer be informing me or should I send him (my lawyer) a message letting me know when he has sent it? I kind of want to know ahead of time. Thanks

[tugofwar]

So, now Im just waiting for him to get served the court order- is there anything I should be doing to prepare for a cross claim or things I should be getting/doing to prepare myself?

[tugofwar]

So, ex received the court application and I made a statement on there and he is refusing to follow. I know that I can not deny him from picking up our child. What can I do? It's regarding visits. If your interested in offering advise pm me please!!

[wretchedotis]

You're last post is a little difficult to follow...

I know from my experience that the initial application and inevitable swirl of excitement around it can be a somewhat alarming.

Remember though, this is a somewhat long process. And perhaps its a good thing it is, as maybe both parties have some time to let their emotions calm down.

What is it about access that concerns you in his answer?

[tugofwar]

Ok, so ex is I think wanting to get an appraisal of the furniture I removed. (was there and we signed a paper on what I removed) There's not much value there. What are some of the other things then if he still wants to go this route? Furniture, appliances, tools, things in garage, air compressor so on and so on. Really, I dont know what the issue is here. I took tv, he has tv, I took couches, he has a set etc.

[Mess]

That's just standard, his lawyer is asking for that for the financial disclosure and equalization.

If you had already decided between you that you had split them up fairly, then you should ask him to save time and money and just agree to put in that section "Already Divided". This is what my ex and I did.

I don't believe you need anything appraised unless it an antique or has some other similar value. You can just provide an estimate of it's resale value, just look for something similar on Craigslist. If he disputes your estimate, inform them that you will agree to an appraised value if they pay for the appraisal.

[tugofwar]

Ok, so got emailed response to court application last week. That means I have 10 days to respond, is that right? My lawyer has not contacted me and Im getting worried.

[tugofwar]

So, my lawyer drafted the form 10a reply by applicant. I wanted to discuss things that were in the response application from my ex and my lawyer never got a hold of me. Lawyers clerk emailed me my reply (after I asked to see it before my scheduled meeting with my lawyer which in fact I showed up and he did not have me scheduled in his blackberry) guess he thought I would just sign it. I did not. I wanted to talk to him first.
Im just so frustrated right now.
Question- my reply still includes all the other matters I have proposed in the first initial court application and any thing I protest in the answer from the respondant?
Am I getting this right? Im just confused.
Anything else I should know about the reply?
HELP PLEASE!!!

[billiechic]

did you ever get to discuss the answer with your lawyer? They can't just write up a draft reply and expect you to just sign it!!

[tugofwar]

Should i keep my reply general? And use more information in reference to matters in my preparation for a case conference? Does the judge read the application, response, cross claim and reply? I don't want to go into much detail if I can do so in my cc brief to the impending matters? any advice?

[Mess]

Tug, your application should contain your full case in point form. Generally you want anything you would bring up at trial to be in the application, there are ways to add things later but basicly this is your case you are presenting.

Your ex's response is their counter arguments to your application, and anything they want to "charge" you with (ie they want custody etc).

Your reply is your rebuttle to their response. It is NOT proper to repeat anything you put in your original application, that is exactly what you shouldn't do. You are just repeating yourself, the judge doesn't want to see that over and over, and it makes your case look weak. What should go into your reply is your counter arguments to anything your ex put in their response.

At this point you should receive updated financials for your ex, it should have been pinned to their response. So you should also look over this closely and if you something is off, like they forgot to include $35,000 or so of assets (this is what my ex did) then you poin this out in your reply.

By being the applicant you get a small advantage in that you have the last word in this little debate. You make your argument, they respond, you get to reply to their response. But your reply should be directed at what they put in their response, not just repeating what you said at the beginning.

When you go to your conference you will also do a "brief" which is a summary of what you put in originally. This should be all your points in even shorter form put in a logical order to lead to a logical conclusion. If you keep things short and simple, and each point leads to the next, and it all adds up to one main idea, this is what will be persuasive to the judge. The judge doesn't want to read a novel that contains the same thing over and over.

[billiechic]

That's a good summary Mess. I am working on a narrative for my lawyer now and that is exactly what I am doing.

[tugofwar]

Tug, your application should contain your full case in point form. Generally you want anything you would bring up at trial to be in the application, there are ways to add things later but basicly this is your case you are presenting.

Your ex's response is their counter arguments to your application, and anything they want to "charge" you with (ie they want custody etc).

Your reply is your rebuttle to their response. It is NOT proper to repeat anything you put in your original application, that is exactly what you shouldn't do. You are just repeating yourself, the judge doesn't want to see that over and over, and it makes your case look weak. What should go into your reply is your counter arguments to anything your ex put in their response.

At this point you should receive updated financials for your ex, it should have been pinned to their response. So you should also look over this closely and if you something is off, like they forgot to include $35,000 or so of assets (this is what my ex did) then you poin this out in your reply.

By being the applicant you get a small advantage in that you have the last word in this little debate. You make your argument, they respond, you get to reply to their response. But your reply should be directed at what they put in their response, not just repeating what you said at the beginning.

When you go to your conference you will also do a "brief" which is a summary of what you put in originally. This should be all your points in even shorter form put in a logical order to lead to a logical conclusion. If you keep things short and simple, and each point leads to the next, and it all adds up to one main idea, this is what will be persuasive to the judge. The judge doesn't want to read a novel that contains the same thing over and over.

Thanks again Mess. It looked like my lawyer just copied things from my application and repeated unnecessary things. I think he just whipped it together and expected me to sign it, we had a conversation, he revised it but again I found mistakes. The thing is this has to be done in 10 days and getting nervous about the deadline. I ended up almost changing everything and adding things that I thought should be.
How is the reply served? He didn't include the lawyers name even though we have proof that ex has a lawyer. I hope he just sends it to lawyer and not serve ex again. The first time was hard enough...

[Mess]

I just thought of a way to explain this simpler, although I think you understand anyway.

It's a little debate where you each get 2 turns.

1st turn, you argue for what you want.
2nd turn, they disagree with your points.
3rd turn, they argue for what they want.
4th turn, you disagree with their points. (from turn 3).

The 1st turn goes into the application. The 2nd and 3rd turns go in the response, the 4th turn goes in the reply.

You can cheat a bit and add some extra points in the reply that are about the 1st or 2nd turn, but they shouldn't be things you said before.

If the response is badly written, it can confuse and jumble up points from 2nd and 3rd turn, so it can be hard to sort out what to reply to. Just keep in mind the main thing for the reply is to counter-argue what your ex is asking for, and if you can provide factual examples why they are wrong.

It helps a lot when you do this to get a scratch pad and make numbered points, and then see if it makes better sense if re-order the numbers. Also, break down what your ex wrote into numbered points, and try making sense of what they are trying to argue. This is important because the judge will probably do exactly that (if the judge puts effort into reading; sometimes the judge will skip over these if they don't make easy sense) so if you have a clear idea of what your ex is arguing for (the end result they are trying to get) it's easier to make your series of points to oppose.

Now, it sounds like your lawyer is doing things real quick and probably saving you money but not doing a great job. Really, the more work you can put into these the better it is for you. Your lawyer doesn't understand your situation nearly as well as you do. What your lawyer can do best is edit out and remove points that are irrelevant or that may actually look bad on you.