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CP Demands That NCP Pay Extra To See Child On Court-Ordered Days - Any Advice?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by scared1 View Post
    Ok, i have to ask when you all last came to the Us. There are new rules in place of this year.
    The Embassy of the United States of America - Canada
    he took them in August. Just because there is a law, doesn't mean border officers will necessarily follow them all the time...

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    • #77
      There's nothing in those rules about a letter of consent, it's all about passports. Children under 16 only need a birth certificate according to that link.

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      • #78
        I'd like to add that for me personally it is simply a precaution to avoid any possible issues, I'd do it again to ensure a problem free trip.

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        • #79
          The bottom line is that she HAS to provide the travel consent, because it's written in the court order that if either parent wishes to travel with the child outside of Canada, the other parent must sign and provide all required documentation.

          The court order also states that daycare costs are to be shared in proportion to income, as those expenses arise.

          My stepson's mom, however, is holding the consent letter "hostage" until my husband agrees to pay her 100% of the daycare costs during his vacation, which is also his court-ordered and agreed-upon access.

          THAT is the issue we're trying to resolve.

          We have encouraged her to take the necessary court action by filing a Motion to Change the current order with regards to daycare expenses, and we have confirmed that we will pay our proportionate share of the daycare expenses subject to a court order to the contrary... which means that if she takes it to court and "wins," we will pay the new court-ordered amount.

          The problem is that she doesn't want to wait until after our vacation to resolve the issue properly in the proper legal way. She wants to extort the money from my husband and I now, before we go on holidays. And she is trying to do so by refusing to sign the travel consent.

          THAT is the issue I'm trying to get advice on.

          Comment


          • #80
            Why is it that you cannot bring your own motion to force her to sign the permission to travel. The courts are full of these exact scenarios right now. It is a short motion. It requires maybe 5 paragraphs in an affidavit. I have never heard of the court list being full to the point that they do not accept short Motions.

            That is what you need ASAP.

            You are never going to get what you need without at least serving her with a contempt motion and supporting affidavit. Even if the court date is AFTER the trip, you will get very far with the judge who will hear the motion if he sees you tried to fix this prior to your scheduled vacation. Make sure you put any non-refundable costs of the trip, and state the impact this will have on the child's well-being because they are aware of the vacation and looking forward to it.

            If she has anything between the ears, just reading the motion and affidavit will scare the crap out of her! If she doesn't comply with the Court Order it is contempt. Plain and simple. You can put a transcript of her voicemails, copies of her emails in it etc. It will read so beautifully that she will have no choice but to comply.

            Make sure you serve her personally, as a contempt motion has a potential for jailtime and the Family law rules insist on personal service(even if they have a lawyer).

            Do it. It will work. Good Luck!

            Comment


            • #81
              Independantgal, my husband was in court all day Friday trying to do that. He was told that there is not enough time to serve a motion to be heard before the holidays, and because we have a conference date already set for February, was advised by counsel at FLIC to wait and see what happens.

              I think you're right... there definitely needs to be a motion of contempt filed. But we won't be able to file it until after the holidays, when we find out whether or not she witholds access and the travel consent. Until then, we really don't know what she will do - if anything.

              But, I do like your idea to serve and file the motion before the holidays (as a scare tactic) even if it's heard after the holidays. But again, until Christmas Day, we won't really know if she's in contempt of the court order or not. Maybe she will stop her demands and let us pick-up the child as agreed-upon, with the travel consent signed.

              Do you think it's possible/right to file a motion of contempt when the other party is only "claiming" they will be in contempt of the order, but hasn't actually done so yet?
              Last edited by #1StepMom; 12-16-2009, 08:52 AM.

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              • #82
                If you have in writing that she is refusing to sign, or that she has put other conditions on her signing the permission to travel form, it IS contempt if it is written in your court order that each party must sign appropriate travel documents to permit travel.

                If you thought about it this way, the woman could say up until your flight/train/ car leaves on the trip, that she has until 1 minute before to sign it before she is in contempt. That is not the meaning of the court order. She IS in contempt if she has said to you in writing and in person/phone that she will not sign it until...

                You can serve her now with the Notice of Motion and Affidavit with the court date your hubby got told is available in January. You can even file it with the courthouse. I would definitely do it this week!

                Do you have enough evidence? Although the fact that you attempted on several occasions to get her to consent to sign it, and the fact that it isn't signed by the time you filed the motion is confirmation enough, don't you agree?

                She has to have a valid defense. She does not. She cannot bring monetary issues into access time. She is in contempt. She is wilfully in contempt. There is no defense that she could say. Remember, in order to prove contempt there is a 3-pronged test. Write the paragraph quoting this somewhere in your affidavit if you like.

                The test is referred to here in a ruling in Hobbs v. Hobbs 2008 Ont. C.A.

                The Court of Appeal applied the criteria with respect to contempt of court laid out in G.(N).) c. Services aux enfants & adultes de Prescott-Russell (2006) Ont. C.A.

                ‘A three-pronged test is required. First, the order that was breached must state clearly and unequivocally what should and should not be done. Secondly, the party who disobeys the order must do so deliberately and wilfully. Thirdly, the evidence must show contempt beyond a reasonable doubt. Any doubt must clearly be resolved in favour of the person or entity alleged to have breached the order.’

                Having applied the three-pronged test, the court concluded that Mr. Hobbs was in contempt of court and dismissed his appeal. Mr. Hobbs’ failure to make disclosure was disastrous for him. Not only was a large cost order awarded against him in the lower court but also in the Court of Appeal. The courts thereby highlighted the necessity of complying with court orders.


                Just serving her personally with the motion will set the ball in motion I think for her to comply.

                It is unacceptable for you to have to wait on pins and needles to get permission to travel until Christmas Day(are you going, or aren't you going?) She has already refused to sign it. Once is enough. You aren't obligated to beg her(although that is what she wants). She is an adult. She is refusing to comply with a simple provision of a court order. She should know the penalties are severe if contempt can be proven. I have seen a few judges tell a contemptor (in cases where it cannot be proven without a reasonable doubt that they wilfully disobeyed) to bring their toothbrush to court next time if this issue is revisited. lol
                Last edited by independentgal; 12-16-2009, 10:09 AM. Reason: added to

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                • #83
                  You cannot get in "trouble" for bringing the motion, and then she decides to comply after the fact. Courts are not stupid, they know that it usually takes a motion to be filed for people to take things seriously. If you need to call the courthouse to withdraw the motion after she signs, that is no problem.

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                  • #84
                    UPDATE:

                    Well, she had her consultation with her lawyer, and...
                    • She will allow access as agreed-upon;
                    • She will provide the travel consent and travel documents;
                    • She plans to bring the matter up in court and if the judge believes she is within reason with respect to the unresolved issues, she will request full reimbursement of all related costs, asking the judge to take into consideration "the 19.5% interest rate on her credit cards, the hours spent preparing court documents, the related stress, the time spent away from other responsibilities, the number of absences from work and income lost, and the impact the court proceedings have on her job security."

                    After reading her 4-page email (yes, FOUR pages in Word, single spaced, Times New Roman, size 12)... my husband and I just looked at each other and said "let her bring it!" As far as we're concerned, she will allow access and provide the travel consent and documents... so we can go on our planned holiday. What she plans on bringing up in court is her perogative. We're going on vacation!

                    Wooohooo!!!!! :-)

                    Thank you all for all your great support and advice!

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                    • #85
                      Very happy to hear that stepmom, yeah! Good for you!!!

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                      • #86
                        Glad your going on vacation!!!

                        My guess is that she didn't 100% agree with the legal advice.

                        Enjoy your vacation and have a couple extra drinks

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by mominont View Post
                          My guess is that she didn't 100% agree with the legal advice.
                          Of course she didn't. That's why she's threating legal action if we don't agree with her interpretation of the sharing of daycare expenses, and that's why she threatened to ask the judge for full reimbursement of costs if she ends up having to take it to court.

                          My husband is standing firm and refusing to agree to anything unless it's all properly legally documented and court-ordered. Even if she starts making financial demands by asking the judge to order payment of her credit card interest, wages lost, etc. (Which she has experience "winning" in past court appearances, unfortunately.)

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                          • #88
                            That is awesome news! So glad it turned out this way for you guys! What a great Christmas present!

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                            • #89
                              WHOOWHOO! Have a GREAT holiday! I am so glad that you have finally been able to get what is right. I hope the judge laughs in her face.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                                I hope the judge laughs in her face.
                                I hope so too. But based on the court experience we've had... she just may get her way. :-(

                                But right now, that's not the issue. We get to go on holiday as planned, with our son, and enjoy our vacation together.

                                We'll deal with the money-grubbing-wench in the New Year! ;-)

                                [Did I mention that in her email, she put a condition that if the daycare issue isn't resolved by January 1st, she is going to take it to court? She is actually trying to get us to argue with her DURING our holiday! LOL!]

                                Comment

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