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  • #16
    I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's one thing when you are depleted financially from this broken system but fighting for custody or access has to be horrible. My heart breaks for you. If the kids are his beneficiaries I bet stepmom will want to keep the kids close to her. I thought my story was effed up, I couldn't sleep thinking about what you are going through. I will keep you in my prayers, I promise. Go fight for your babies and bring them home. Sending you a virtual hug from one burned out mom to another.

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    • #17
      I don’t know the legal aspects of this, but given the ages, especially the 14 year old, I’d be very careful about going in and plucking them out of the home they know... they just lost their father, which has turned their world upside down, removing them from their home, even if it is with stepmom, could be devastating for them. Given they don’t have a great relationship with you, you absolutely need legal advice, you need to work on a schedule that doesn’t turn their world upside down more and make them resent you further because you removed them from the only place they know as home. Court ordered counselling for one, a strict access schedule...

      How far away are you from the girls now? Still two hours? That means a change in school for them as well. Your ex having a will or not should be the least of the worries... you need to focus on your relationship with your girls and helping them through this tough time... I understand wanting to just go bring them home and have them with you but don’t do something that they are going to resent you for. Please seek legal advice ASAP


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      • #18
        I think some of you are missing the key point—she has been fighting for access to them for 2.5 years. No timeline was given for when the sole custody award was made but for the last two years she has been fighting to see her kids. The kids are not new to their mom wanting to see them and realistically there was some order in place for that time. Dad was in the wrong for both denying that time and alienating them.

        I say this because mom isn’t going to be filing a motion to get the kids. She is responding to a filing in the ongoing process they have been in for 2.5 years. There has been a major change now that dad has died. How does she respond to the ONGOING matter but also how the children’s lives change with dad out of the picture.

        Yes she shouldn’t waltz in and pack them up but she should be responding to the affidavit filed ON BEHALF OF A DECEASED PERSON regarding custody of her children. This other person is dads gf and there is no will.

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        • #19
          She has had access since the sole custody Order she didn’t know about, her current motion she filed 2.5 years ago is to challenge that sole custody ordered without proper notification (she should have been personally served, not mailed, and there should have been several attempts of service over many month for various appearances).

          But I don’t see how that Motion can even continue as dead people/estates cannot have custody of children and custody would not automatically transfer to anyone but a biological parent. I expect that the current motion will be dismissed, which is why she needs to file an emergency motion for custody (not necessarily removing the children from the step mom’s care right away) to get that ball rolling. We all know how slow the system is. It would also probably reflect poorly on her if she DOESN’T ask for custody, judges can be weird sometimes with the biases they bring into court.

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          • #20
            Oh my god, what a situation to be in!
            I do know of someone who had his daughter every other weekend, and 2 days a week.
            The Mother had Custody, got cancer (never told the father) Mother and Daughter were living with her Parents--Child's Grandparents. Grandparents in their 70's.
            Mother died.
            Father filed for Custody, Grandparents fought him. Grandparents Won Custody. (They Succeeded in painting the Father our Awful!!)
            I think Father's Access he had remained the Same. He now has to pay Child Support to the Grandparents.
            He Spent $70,000 in his own legal fees for that, and the Grandparents were going after him for their Court Fees.

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            • #21
              The estate of the deceased becomes the party and the matter can continue on motion - Rules of Civil Procedure 9.03(3) and 9.03(6)

              If the step mother wishes to make a claim, she could bring a motion to be added as a party.

              It should also be noted the matter was automatically stayed when the father died, pursuant to RCP 9.03(6). Which is another reason why OP needs a lawyer and can’t just bring an emergency motion...

              Where the Family Law Rules do not adequately cover an issue, you refer to the Rules of Civil Procedure (FLR 1(7))

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              • #22
                this is a horrible situation. I'm so sorry for your girls. Do you know if they are receiving any counselling? Have you been able to see them since?

                Originally posted by pinkmorganite View Post
                I do know of someone who had his daughter every other weekend, and 2 days a week.
                The Mother had Custody, got cancer (never told the father) Mother and Daughter were living with her Parents--Child's Grandparents. Grandparents in their 70's.
                Mother died.
                Father filed for Custody, Grandparents fought him. Grandparents Won Custody. (They Succeeded in painting the Father our Awful!!)
                I think Father's Access he had remained the Same. He now has to pay Child Support to the Grandparents.
                He Spent $70,000 in his own legal fees for that, and the Grandparents were going after him for their Court Fees.
                As much as I wouldn't like to see this- this feels a lot like my situation. The first thing I did when I separated was to change my will. Prior to separation- my ex and I had major arguments about who would be the guardian of our daughter if we were both deceased. He wanted his sister, and I wanted my own. Since separation, I have lived with my parents- and even prior to separation- my mom lived with us during the week to care for my daughter when I was at work. My mother, sister and I just had this conversation this weekend- and they both agreed that if something were to happen to me, my mother would move in with my sister and they would apply to be the legal guardian of my daughter. I've changed my life insurance policy to ensure that my sister and my mom would have enough to cover the legal fees it would require.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                  this is a horrible situation. I'm so sorry for your girls. Do you know if they are receiving any counselling? Have you been able to see them since?


                  As much as I wouldn't like to see this- this feels a lot like my situation. The first thing I did when I separated was to change my will. Prior to separation- my ex and I had major arguments about who would be the guardian of our daughter if we were both deceased. He wanted his sister, and I wanted my own. Since separation, I have lived with my parents- and even prior to separation- my mom lived with us during the week to care for my daughter when I was at work. My mother, sister and I just had this conversation this weekend- and they both agreed that if something were to happen to me, my mother would move in with my sister and they would apply to be the legal guardian of my daughter. I've changed my life insurance policy to ensure that my sister and my mom would have enough to cover the legal fees it would require.

                  It's not my situation.....Just a Family that I know it happened to.
                  So I don't know the personal details regarding counseling.
                  Very Sad, Scary Situation for anyone though.

                  I feel for the Mother who started this thread/situation she is in!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I heard back from duty counsel from the Family Law Information Centre and she advised me to file a motion right away for temporary custody of my children. However I do not want to just rip my girls out of there and hurt them even more than they are already hurting. They just lost their daddy and I wholeheartedly believe that they were already in a great deal of emotional turmoil from the alienation that has been going on for so long. I'd love nothing more than to stick it to the evil step-mother but doing that harms my children and how to do this without hurting them is what I've been struggling with the most ever since I got the call that he passed.

                    Now I have to decide what to ask for in the motion. Is my having sole custody but them living with her whilre counselling to ease the transition to full time with me a possibility that I could ask for? Or is that even a good idea? Their father and step mother claimed to never speak to them about court proceedings yet as an excuse as to why the girls are resistant to seeing me is because they fear I'll get custody and they'll have to come live with me so I was asked to consent to no change of custody to "help them relax and trust" me. I had consented to no immediate change of custody but I wasn't ever going to consent to none ever. I don't think that matters now anyways because the situation has changed drastically.

                    Can I ask for an order for psychological assessments of the giels and of the stepmother as well? Can I request that his estate pay for that? There's a psychologist close to our area that specializes in parental alienation and I want him. My ex's lawyer is actually the lawyer in the case where I read about this psychologist but in that case she was on the side of the parent being alienated. The judge in the case is the judge who gave my ex sole custody and that same judge seems to have seen that that was a mistake. Can I use that case with both the judge and his lawyer in my case or is there a conflict rule or something?

                    Is there a good place online to go for answers to a lot of my questions regarding procedures and what I can and can't do? Everything I've found is of no help to me and I spend more time searching for answers than I do doing the work that needs to be done. I have a 4 year old at home and I feel like I'm taking my time away from her to do this...I feel so guilty!

                    I have not seen or heard from my girls or anyone else from his family. My mother has called there 3 times and there has been no answer and nobody has returned her calls.

                    I voluntarily agreed to the children's lawyer's little experiment of 2 hours every second week and no phone access while waiting for the Family Preservation Program to become involved. This was supposed to last 6 months and my access was supposed to increase once they began the program. It took 2 months for the referral to even be made and another 4 months for them to call my cell phone which I explained to the several times only receives texts. They never once called my landline. They then closed the file. I had to reapply for the program and wait once again. When I finally got the call I went in for the intake appointment and found out I don't qualify and never would have because I don't have custody! This all began October 25, 2017!! The children's lawyer and cas workers essentially caused this complete breakdown in our relationship!

                    I need all the help and advice I can get please!

                    (And i have contacted lawyers, none have returned my calls. I've contacted each lawyer 3 times since Wednesday afternoon (my previous lawyer) and Thursday (2 other lawyers) when I originally called. I've emailed my previous lawyers assistant and she replied to the first
                    Email saying he's been away and she'd forward my email to him (the receptionist said he was in meetings each time I called). The assistant had not replied to any emails since.
                    I'm not normally one to keep calling or emailing when I don't get an answer and annoy them but the area we live in is so small that there's only a few lawyers I can call and I need answers.)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this... this forum is a wealth of knowledge but I’m not sure anyone here has dealt with what you’re dealing with. I think it’s wonderful of you not to just waltz in and rip you’re girls away... they must have sooo many emotions going through their heads... my heart breaks for them. They are the ones who are most important in this situation. I do think you need a lawyer... if one in your area isn’t responding I’d really start looking for one maybe a town or two over.

                      Does your older daughter have Facebook or a cell phone or email? Have you tried reaching out directly? I wouldn’t mention them coming to live with you but I’d express how sorry you are for them losing their father and you want to be there for them as much as possible. Provide all the ways they can contact you, ask if you can come see them. Be present but don’t force. Clearly a lot of counselling is required with all parties involved.

                      I do urge not to go this alone... you need a lawyer, this is sooo complex, especially with the 14 year old because she can easily decide with her feet. Ug I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Keep searching for a lawyer and get the ball rolling as soon as you can.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      • #26
                        You may not have heard back from the lawyers as it could be so small a town that they have conflicts. Depending on where you are, I agree that you should look outside the city. You need someone who is not only able to handle the case but also able to handle the alienation.

                        I would also call CAS and ask to speak to someone there about it. While this woman has been “in loco” parent the last few years, she is not their parent and has been contributing to emotionally abusive alienation.

                        Is there a mental health organization in your area? Possibly a family service type of place? I would call them as well and see if you can set up an intake appointment for yourself. That will help you wrap your head around things and know what to say (and not say).

                        Do you have any options with his family or friends? Did he have parents still alive who may seek custody?

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                        • #27
                          I would drop the alienation talk for now. It isn’t fair but it sends up red flags that this is a high conflict case. You want to have a simple, black and white motion to put to the judge so they can feel comfortable making a temporary order for custody to you with generous access to the step—mom (including possibly primary residential mon-fri so the girls stay in the same school). The judge wants to see you as being child-centred, let the step mom hang herself by refusing access and contact.

                          Go to your courthouse, preferably on motions day, and see how the lawyers act and how the judges treat them. You will quickly see which family lawyers are hot messes/disorganized/aren’t familiar with court. When see see a lawyer who impressed you have a 30 second elevator speech ready, explaining your case in black and white terms without mentioning alienation. Mention that you are stable, you have custody of their siblings, that you want to facilitate access with the step mom.

                          Good luck, I know this is stressful but this may end up being a good thing for your family. If anything, I bet a few readers of your question have quickly drawn up a will with testamentary custody spelled out. Just because I am nosey, how did the dad die so young??

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I just re-read and realized you mentioned the children’s lawyer. If they have been appointed one you should be reaching out to her, mentioning that you have been unable to contact the girls and you wondered if she could check on them. Don’t share too much until you have your own lawyer, but keeping her advised of what is going on is a good idea.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pinkmorganite View Post
                              I feel for the Mother who started this thread/situation she is in!


                              The mother here is fine. She had lost custody. Now she is set to regain custody because of the death of the father.


                              This is a disaster for her children. Even though her ex is dead the mother is still posting full of anger. The kids are about to be yanked away from their stable home and forced to live with what appears to be a very unstable mother.


                              I am honestly upset that we are helping this mother at all. I get that everyone deserves a fair shake etc etc but we are potentially screwing over some kids here.


                              I've glanced at this thread a couple of times and each time it makes me question my values. As a forum, I think we have really fucked up. I can't know for sure, and I'm certain the mom will post that she is a wonderful person, but my gut feeling says otherwise.
                              Last edited by Janus; 09-24-2019, 01:39 PM. Reason: emotions led to lousy grammar. better now.

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                              • #30
                                As a forum, we have the obligation to be kind to each other. I’m sorry you have had negative experience with specific people that you now use to rationalize your assumptions and judgements about others. I hope you process your negative emotions in a healthy way that enriches your life and the life of those around you.

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