LF32 "need to see daughter" pt.2

[MrToronto]

I'd kick the OCL out the door if I got even the smallest inkling I was being questioned on a "transcript" that I've never seen and hasn't been tested in Court.

OCL is going to write a REPORT where she already "questioned" a witness and found the person "guilty" based on a B.S transcript? GET OUTTA MY HOUSE!

Nope just write the report on the Nice man...the nice house...his's love for the child...his involvement with child...his expectations for child....the extended family of child.....no drugs here's some tests ....no police shizz...he's educated ...has a job...past 7.5 year history....and ex changed after baby..and the B.S around that....and took off to shelter calling him a drunkin yeller type and no idea where she lives now

[LovingFather32]

I'd kick the OCL out the door if I got even the smallest inkling I was being questioned on a "transcript" that I've never seen and hasn't been tested in Court.

OCL is going to write a REPORT where she already "questioned" a witness and found the person "guilty" based on a B.S transcript? GET OUTTA MY HOUSE!

Nope just write the report on the Nice man...the nice house...his's love for the child...his involvement with child...his expectations for child....the extended family of child.....no drugs here's some tests ....no police shizz...he's educated ...has a job...past 7.5 year history....and ex changed after baby..and the B.S around that....and took off to shelter calling him a drunkin yeller type and no idea where she lives now

SO when she busts out the forms saying something like "and you permit me to go over any evidence by the other party" (probably already has) . I use something like Arabians line few posts back? I do that she'll hate me for sure but damn I have rights and I smell an ambush.

[MrToronto]

If I ever saw a recording I'd listen and say...oh yeah I vaguely remember that night I accidently took some bad medicine for a headache and had 2 beers and boy it screwed me up

unless it's a video ..with me doing beer funnels and blowing smoke rings at the camera...LOL

Can't assume people are drunk from a voice recording or video (with no booze or dope in sight) Can't even assume booze was in a bottle or glass or the white rolled thing was a joint

Unless a person admits it. (like Rob Ford... did eventually even although everyone seen the crack pipe video months prior to his confession...lmao)

You both drank and puffed occasionally that's the only true story....but not in the transcript (you had rabies then LF32)...lmao

[MrToronto]

ambushed ..I don't think so....that's as far as I go...That we both drank and puffed occasionally....unless the OCL rips off her clothes and she's wearing a Judges robe underneath....then I would elaborate.

do you drink

occasionally with the ex and friends

when you did drink how many drinks

my limit was 4 (26'ers)

not more than 4?

I'm inexperienced with drinking I can't handle more than 4

How about drugs, do you do drugs?

I've experimented but I don't inhale

Your wife says you do, that your the reefer king!

Well I'm flattered but as a couple with both experimented and pretended to inhale

[arabian]

I don't know if you saw this before but I came across it - it is Involveddad's post from 2013 regarding OCL:

01-25-2013, 12:42 AM
involveddad75 involveddad75 is offline
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Some where, out there.
Posts: 633
involveddad75 will become famous soon enough
Default Tips for dealing with OCL and Private Assessors
I post this here for those about to go through an OCL assessment or a private assessment, if anyone wishes to add to this then please do so.

Position to take for joint custody equal shared parenting.
Explain that the children have lost their family as they know it. That you feel the children shouldn't lose their relationship with either parent.
The only consern you have is that with all the aligations being thrown out there to cloudy and muddy the waters it makes the assessors job more difficult. How can an assessor award joint custody when things like this are happening. Assure the assessor that you won't be adding to the noise. And ask the assessor to ask you how things are working, and how things are likely going to improve once your family is out of court. Talk about seeking couselling for improving communication, and support dealing with stress due to seperation. And that you are dealing well.

Basically an assessor's job is to be a fotune teller, they don't care about the past (provided there isn't abuse) only about moving forward.
The position to take: Assessor's position is very hard they are only in the children's lives for a split second, we as parents are in it for the long haul.
An assessor is also doing the assessment at a time of high emotion and high stress, and high animosity. They aren't comming back to check up on their assessment 2, 4, 6 years down the road. and learn from their mistakes. It's a snap shot. No one can read the future.

Now for the factual stuff.
This is taken from what I have learned during my assessment and the case notes which were released to me. I should add that my OCL report recommended Sole custody to my ex. I did end up with paralle and equal shared at trial. So this is what I would do now if given a second chance.

OCL generally gets 20 hours to do an assessment give or take.
4 hours parent interviews (2 hours with each parent usaully in 1 hour sittings)
3 hours observing the children (1.5 hours with each parent)
3 hours collecting colateral evidence (talking to family and friends)
Note this is all heresay and is all untested evidence. remember that
when you question the assessor at trial if you are disputing it.
2 disclosure meeting
8 hours writting 40 page report.

Here is a list of questions the OCL will likely ask you. This is taken directly from the case note of my assessor notes. And althrough maybe worded different generally you get the picture. You should have answers to these questions before the start of your assessment.

Remember frame everything around how equal shared parenting benifits the children. Not you, focus on the benifits for the children.

How did you and your partner meet?
Relationship Background:
Court Activity:
Parenting Arrangement History:
Exchange Routines:
What is working well in this situation?
What is not working so well in this situation?
Was there any violence during or after relationship with ex-partner?
Did the child/ren witness violence?
What led to the separation?
How have you coped since the separation?
Are you involved in another relationship?
What are your strengths/weaknesses as a parent?
How do you discipline?
Has your children ever been abused by anyone? Was there CAS/Police involvement?
Do you have any worries about your child/ren?
What is a typical day like in your household with the child/ren?
Can you tell me about your child/ren?
Who do you think the child/ren would like to be with? Why?
What would you like to see happen in terms of custody? Why?
How do you plan to make it work?
How did this custody situation get to be such a mess?
What are you doing to avoid conflict?
What. if anything. do you wish you had done differently since separating?
Who has the child/ren been involved with? (babysitters. daycare. family members, school etc?
Has the child/ren ever been in hospital?
Have you ever been hospitalized?
Have you ever experimented with drugs?
How many drinks do you have in a week?
Have you ever been told you have a substance abuse problem?
Do you have a history of mental illness?
Have you ever gone to counselling? Have you ever seen a psychiatrist?
Have you ever been involved with the law?
Tell me about your education history:
Tell me about your work history:
What is your financial situation?
Where were you born?
Parents Names/Marital Status
Do you have siblings & what is your relationship like with him/her/them?

[MrToronto]

I saw those OCL questions before Arabian, they look typical.

But abuse allegations have ruined some answers LF32 could make

-zippo child stuff after allegations...3 questions gone probably half of them
Parenting Arrangement History:
Exchange Routines:
What is working well in this situation?
What is not working so well in this situation?

This child was "more" toddler at 2.5 years at separation, so to "witness" and process anything is unlikely unless violence was chronic, then there would be behavioural things...not in this case....violence isn't mentioned anywhere at this point

Who has the child/ren been involved with? (babysitters. daycare. family members, school etc?

The deepest roots is with LF32 and his family. Especially Gramma there's no running from her for the EX....D3 spent a lot of time there and EX gladly brought D3 there.

So much for old goat ...POOF gone

LF32 can't be answering pre-loaded questions blind

The ONLY substantive issue is drug or alcohol abuse or both affecting access...if I remember the original scumbag lawyer letter

CC judge wasn't interested in there B.S

Something about a "transcript" has been forced like a high fiber turd to float up

I guess the "dead sea scrolls" show drug and alcohol abuse.....don't know how

But if the OP is floating this turd to "widen" the allegations (obviously are because LF32 is morbidly curious now)

OMG OMG OMG what's in the scrolls!!!!!!!!!!!

who cares...the more OP wander around here and there making various allegations the more the original position OP had becomes a made up FARCE

err...uhm...we know LF32 is coming in with clean tests.....but uhm....we now think he was half a drug and alcohol abuser and half verbal abuser....yeah we like that position this week because we got a transcript.

[arabian]

Mr. T - love your expression "... high fibre turd" - hilarious!

[MrToronto]

Yeah...my creative expressions worked well in Court for bored Judges.

it was all in the timing...1 joke every 8 hours while I sat in the witness box getting grilled, the judges appreciated a break in the monotony as I was getting sliced and diced.

More water please.....dam gimme the JUG

[Rioe]

I wonder where the assessor will do the observations/interview with your ex? Somewhere in town where she pretends to be living.

I think a lot of answers to your questions will be along the lines of "I don't know what a typical day for my daughter is now, as the ex has unilaterally limited me to three supervised hours a week. But this is how those hours go."

And if the assessor asks your permission to use evidence provided by the other side, you ask to see it first. Maybe you can get disclosure from them?

[MrToronto]

I've never took the "process seriously" or the consequences or the costs...I just go fill out the forms and see where it goes

Common sense is my guiding principle and I view judges (who sadly make decisions for grownups) as going to see dad or mom.

Yeah it's that complicated

[MrToronto]

Zactly RIOE

I asked LF32 to ask his lawyer about what to say when he is presented by the OCL the non-disclosure items by OP that will directly affect this matter if it goes to Trial

OCL is already whining about "if LF32 smokes in his house".......YEP leading question already....LF32 smokes at his friends house...ONLY

[MrToronto]

I see LF32 on drugs Tuesday.....Imodium for diarrhea...and Gravol for puking

[Headwaters1]

No I'd be paranoid. She is probably coming in ready to think you're an asshole. But hey you're a psychology major, how do you disarm her?

And do it without coming off too cutesy. You can't flatter her to death...she needs to see sincerity, genuine concern for your daughter and no sign of anger.

But it does require your finding some rapport with her for sure. It's weird...in the middle of this very procedural fight comes this very personality driven evaluation.

I think if they ask about the transcripts you can say "you know I've heard about those but I haven't been privy to them, I don't feel comfortable signing a form for something that should have been disclosed long ago. Let's have her lawyer send them to me...let me review and then on our next visit or before if necessary I can sign a release."

That's reasonable I think and fair.

One other thing. I'd record the whole session. They tell you that you can't...it's not allowed...I think it's actually illegal for them to say that. But I wasn't about to argue that point with the new now most important evaluator in my life...

Luckily I think my assessor is great (stand by for further review in a few weeks) but it would be very helpful later if you feel words are skewed. Again we can go in three more pages with whether it's admissible.,,but recordings give you real confidence and power.

Like for example in a future letter of appeal you get to write "13 minutes and 23 seconds into our interview Ms OCL asked me x and at 14:12 I replied with y".

It doesn't need to be admissible it just makes your affidavit 500x more powerful.

[Headwaters1]

Sorry don't mean to be such a downer (just re-reading my first line) but imagine the life if these assessors...

Day after day meeting absolute genuine jerks. For ever 1 lf32 there are 99 total worthless pricks who actually beat their wifes.

And so walking in what are the chances they think you're going to be different.

That's why I really didn't work too hard to prove it was innocent. Instead I just concentrated on what I needed to communicate to her. I didn't plead or beg or moan....I was just calmly communicating.

I think looking mature and stable was more important than saying 50 times.

Okay anyways...good night...

Man I hope you get through this ok LF32!

[LovingFather32]

I saw those OCL questions before Arabian, they look typical.

But abuse allegations have ruined some answers LF32 could make

-zippo child stuff after allegations...3 questions gone probably half of them
Parenting Arrangement History:
Exchange Routines:
What is working well in this situation?
What is not working so well in this situation?

This child was "more" toddler at 2.5 years at separation, so to "witness" and process anything is unlikely unless violence was chronic, then there would be behavioural things...not in this case....violence isn't mentioned anywhere at this point

Who has the child/ren been involved with? (babysitters. daycare. family members, school etc?

The deepest roots is with LF32 and his family. Especially Gramma there's no running from her for the EX....D3 spent a lot of time there and EX gladly brought D3 there.

So much for old goat ...POOF gone

LF32 can't be answering pre-loaded questions blind

The ONLY substantive issue is drug or alcohol abuse or both affecting access...if I remember the original scumbag lawyer letter

CC judge wasn't interested in there B.S

Something about a "transcript" has been forced like a high fiber turd to float up

I guess the "dead sea scrolls" show drug and alcohol abuse.....don't know how

But if the OP is floating this turd to "widen" the allegations (obviously are because LF32 is morbidly curious now)

OMG OMG OMG what's in the scrolls!!!!!!!!!!!

who cares...the more OP wander around here and there making various allegations the more the original position OP had becomes a made up FARCE

err...uhm...we know LF32 is coming in with clean tests.....but uhm....we now think he was half a drug and alcohol abuser and half verbal abuser....yeah we like that position this week because we got a transcript.

The deepest roots is with LF32 and his family. Especially Gramma there's no running from her for the EX....D3 spent a lot of time there and EX gladly brought D3 there.

Ex's mom despised this fact. My mom lived across the street. Of course she saw her daily Sometimes my mom would take her for the week. Nanny was one of D3's hero's. Still is. D3's just very confused about why she cant go to nanny's house. My lawyer said ex's lawyer painted my mom as a jerk.
Why?
After ex left she entered my bank account, stealing money via interact e-mail transfer. My mom texted her saying "Hey kiddo. Unlike you we care about D3 and we don't want her mother to have a criminal record You should return the money". I was on phone with fraud line. Ex returned money right away and called my mom's texts harassment. So now my mom couldn't supervise.

I guess the "dead sea scrolls" show drug and alcohol abuse.....don't know how

Yep .. manipulation, leading q's. She started repeating this daily "Is all you have in your system alcohol? (She asked this in morning. I had a glass of wine before bed night before WITH HER). These types of q's were part of her master plan.

She's planned for months. Every syllable that cam out of my mouth was recorded. I never signed up for this tv show though.