So my STBX was a very good mom until she blindsided me and announced she wanted a divorce. She then became a 40 year old who is trying to re live her 20s and started going out all the time. I stepped it up as a dad and stayed home all of the time when I wasn't working. She would send the kids to relatives or friend's houses if I were working. This went on for about 6 months and I have it all documented on a spread sheet calendar with screen shots of text messages and emails from both mine and my kids phones (10&13 year old). Last month while I was at work she moved out with the kids and backed a moving truck up to the house and took a ton of stuff. I found out by her through email. She is now dictating a schedule that is significantly less time than what I was doing and her lawyer is demanding child support. I am worried this will become status quo. I thought that I had already established status quo with my tracking. Will the judge look at my tracking. Will her recent or past actions have any influence with the judge. Please help me here
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Wife moved kids without permission
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You should have, and still should now, file a motion to have the children returned to their familiar residence. The longer you wait, the worse your odds become of having the children returned to the matrimonial home. You also include in the motion that alternatively, if the kids are not returned, you want 50/50 parenting time with the child and joint custody. That way if the judge decides that they shouldn't be returned to your house, that they can order a parenting time schedule. In the mean time, you need to be requesting 50/50 custody of the children as that is in their best interests.
How far did she move? Are the kids still in the same school zone? These things matter. If she moved them out of the city or school zone, your odds increase as the children should generally stay in their familiar location. Their lives shouldn't be unnecessarily disrupted. If it is a different school zone I assume she enrolled them in a new school.
Have you advised her that you do not agree with her unilateral decision to remove the children from their place of residence and change their school (if applicable)? If not, you need to advise her of just that. She doesn't get to play keep away with the kids due to her unilateral decision.
As for status quo your argument is that she is creating a false status quo by unreasonably withholding the children. That you are equally capable of caring for the children, and her withholding them is not in the children's best interests. That the children have the right to relationships with both parents, and that both parents are obligated to facilitate the relationship with the other. That her decision to unilaterally withhold parenting time from you is the opposite of that obligation.
You need to move all communication to email if you haven't. Text is ok, but email is better. No more telephone calls. If she calls you, you limit it to discussions about the children and then send an email to the ex confirming the conversation.
Right now she has the power because she has the kids. You need to take back some of that by filing a motion in court.
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Her initial email said that if I don't agree with her schedule she would have sole custody until things are sorted. I emailed and said I don't agree but the kids should see their dad. She held them back from me the first day. She moved them 10min away. The distance did take them out of the school zone. She now drives them. My lawyer sent them a very stern, yet professional letter and mentioned court action. They sent a letter back that was just full of personal attacks and gave me a different schedule that was even less time with the kids. It looked like my wife wrote the letter and her lawyer added some big words here and there. My lawyer sent another letter that again was very professional. We are waiting on a reply and I filled out the court documents. We plan on court action if they don't comply. My 13 year old son was telling me that my wife's lawyer told her that she is legally entitled to come and go as she pleases from the house. He also said that he doesn't like the schedule that I made. I told him that I didn't make the schedule and he said that his mom said that I made it. Now I think she is filling the kids heads with crap.
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Don’t engage the kids. Repeat—DO NOT ENGAGE THE KIDS.
If your kids say anything about the situation your response is “this is between your mom and I and I don’t want you to worry about it”. She can say whatever she wants to them, you be the better person. “Its unfortunate you are being involved in this, its between mom and me and I won’t discuss it or involve you”.
The biggest mistake you can make is engaging the kids. Remember they are kids and are being subjected to unnecessary hostility.
File the motion. Don’t wait. Get a court date. She can write anything she wants, she doesn’t get to steal your kids and demand payment.
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Originally posted by Super dad View PostHer initial email said that if I don't agree with her schedule she would have sole custody until things are sorted. I emailed and said I don't agree but the kids should see their dad.
She held them back from me the first day.
She moved them 10min away. The distance did take them out of the school zone. She now drives them.
My lawyer sent them a very stern, yet professional letter and mentioned court action.
They sent a letter back that was just full of personal attacks and gave me a different schedule that was even less time with the kids. It looked like my wife wrote the letter and her lawyer added some big words here and there.
My lawyer sent another letter that again was very professional. We are waiting on a reply and I filled out the court documents. We plan on court action if they don't comply.
My 13 year old son was telling me that my wife's lawyer told her that she is legally entitled to come and go as she pleases from the house. He also said that he doesn't like the schedule that I made. I told him that I didn't make the schedule and he said that his mom said that I made it. Now I think she is filling the kids heads with crap.
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Originally posted by Super dad View PostI am worried this will become status quo.
I thought that I had already established status quo with my tracking.
Please help me here
When the ex takes the kids without your permission, that is an emergency.
I can't believe you have waited a month. You should have filed the day after she took them. It is already late. Luckily it is not too late, but it is approaching that point very very quickly.
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Originally posted by Janus View PostYou should be worried. This will indeed becomes the status quo.
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$1800 is nothing. Prepare yourself for more. If you make it to trial and you win you could try to argue for costs but thats a crapshoot. Start watching your money, don’t call your lawyer for multiple things, tell them you want to see stuff before they respond and watch every penny spent.
You have to remind yourself that the money is spent to see your kids.
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Originally posted by Super dad View PostThis stunt of hers has also cost me $1800 I legal fees plus whatever court will cost. Can I somehow have her pay for this?
An avg custody dispute is going to cost you at least 20k. And that's IF you settle.
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Thanks guys. This forum is super helpful. Wish I looked it up 6 months ago. Anyway, still wondering if my tracking will help anything. I basically built a calendar in Excel and it has her coming and going everyday for the last 6 months. It shows daily how many hours she either left the kids with me or someone else so she could go out. Every day is supported with screenshots of text messages and emails from my phone or my kids phones with her saying she will be out. I have messages from 4am with me asking her to come home so I can go to work. I have one from my son's phone where she asks him to ask his friends if he can sleep at their house so she can go for a sleepover. I feel sort of dirty using my kids phones to prove she is not there for them when I'm at work. I hope my kids never find out and will forgive me if they do. Will this have any impact with a judge?
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It probably will never get to the judge. Keep it as documentation that can be used in discussions with her or as proof to back up a claim. Its good documentation but may never go anywhere.
Leaving with the kids does not look good on her which help your case. As long as the emergency motion has been filed to get them back you can focus on moving that forward.
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Originally posted by Super dad View PostSo my STBX was a very good mom until she blindsided me and announced she wanted a divorce. She then became a 40 year old who is trying to re live her 20s and started going out all the time. I stepped it up as a dad and stayed home all of the time when I wasn't working. She would send the kids to relatives or friend's houses if I were working. This went on for about 6 months and I have it all documented on a spread sheet calendar with screen shots of text messages and emails from both mine and my kids phones (10&13 year old).
Originally posted by Super dad View PostLast month while I was at work she moved out with the kids and backed a moving truck up to the house and took a ton of stuff. I found out by her through email.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostShe is now dictating a schedule that is significantly less time than what I was doing and her lawyer is demanding child support.
2. At best you should calculate the off-set 50-50 payment that either of you would pay. If you are the paying parent in that scenario open a bank account and start paying that account.
3. At worst you should calculate what full table child support would be should you not be able to establish yourself as a joint custodial parent with equal (50-50) access and pay that into the account.
With the climate in the courts these days (depending on if you are in the GTA, Hamilton, Peel, Milton or Durham Regions) #2 is a highly likely scenario. (Where you get joint custody and equal access of the children.)
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI am worried this will become status quo.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI thought that I had already established status quo with my tracking. Will the judge look at my tracking. Will her recent or past actions have any influence with the judge. Please help me here
Stop trying to make the other parent look bad. Start organizing your thoughts about you as a parent. What you do. Your relationship to the children. That is YOUR evidence. Most cases where the parent attacks the other parent never works out. The "I DO EVERYTHING FOR THE KIDS" pattern of evidence is bullshit and most judges know this, have seen it all before.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostHer initial email said that if I don't agree with her schedule she would have sole custody until things are sorted.
Pure facts are ones that don't require paragraphs of bullshit to explain them.
1. On date X parent Y moved from the residence.
2. On date X at time Z parent Y sent an email explicitly stating they had moved:
RELEVANT QUOTE FROM EMAIL.
Please see schedule "A" attached to my affidavit... blah blah blah. (Your lawyer will have a style for this.)
If you indeed did get email communications where the other parent enshrined stupidity like you are saying you don't need to say it was stupid. Just quote it exactly and provide the evidence. Often people overdo lead-ups to evidence that is unnecessary.
A good lawyer will be able to write your affidavit and clean it of all the emotional BS that most people include that is irrelevant.
(Now this comment may not be relevant due to the duration of the conduct being one day. I included the above for anyone who is reading this and going through a situation where it goes well beyond a day.)
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI emailed and said I don't agree but the kids should see their dad.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostShe held them back from me the first day.
I suspect you are easily emotionally baited. You need to develop tools on how to deescalate conflict. Check out William Eddy's materials from the High Conflict Institute. Specifically the BIFF stuff. (Google it.)
Originally posted by Super dad View PostShe moved them 10min away. The distance did take them out of the school zone. She now drives them.
Likely their is direct public transit between the home that is 10km away and their school. I suspect they are walking distance or in the zone for bussing where you are residing.
If you own this residence be prepared to have to sell it soon. It is probably a joint-owned property. Sorry to say. So don't die on the hill of where you currently live. That will change unless you have a rich relative that can give you a private mortgage and 0% interest loan to keep the place... It's going to be sold.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostMy lawyer sent them a very stern, yet professional letter and mentioned court action.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostThey sent a letter back that was just full of personal attacks and gave me a different schedule that was even less time with the kids. It looked like my wife wrote the letter and her lawyer added some big words here and there.
Letters are a waste of time. See the comment above about what you should do.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostMy lawyer sent another letter that again was very professional. We are waiting for a reply and I filled out the court documents.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostWe plan on court action if they don't comply.
I would just turn the 35.1 into your offer to settle really. You have a high probability of getting a 50-50 access and joint custody order on the first motion. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN HAMILTON AREA.
If your lawyer doesn't get this strategy get a new lawyer.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostMy 13 year old son was telling me that my wife's lawyer told her that she is legally entitled to come and go as she pleases from the house.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostHe also said that he doesn't like the schedule that I made. I told him that I didn't make the schedule and he said that his mom said that I made it. Now I think she is filling the kids heads with crap.
Good Luck!
TaykenLast edited by Tayken; 11-29-2019, 03:35 AM.
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Originally posted by Super dad View PostThanks guys. This forum is super helpful. I wish I looked it up 6 months ago. Anyway, still wondering if my tracking will help anything.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI basically built a calendar in Excel and it has her coming and going every day for the last 6 months. It shows daily how many hours she either left the kids with me or someone else so she could go out. Every day is supported with screenshots of text messages and emails from my phone or my kid's phones with her saying she will be out.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI have messages from 4 am with me asking her to come home so I can go to work. I have one from my son's phone where she asks him to ask his friends if he can sleep at their house so she can go for a sleepover.
Originally posted by Super dad View PostI feel sort of dirty using my kid's phones to prove she is not there for them when I'm at work. I hope my kids never find out and will forgive me if they do. Will this have any impact on a judge?
Worry about your conduct and not the conduct of the other parent. Simply stating you were caring for the children on that day and not worry about what the other parent was doing. Explaining their absence is their responsibility. If they give bad evidence that is misleading your lawyer can eat them alive in response.
Misleading the court is a bad thing to do. It doesn't win cases but, it widdles down the "your a bad parent" argument rapidly.
Here is some case law for you to read that smells similar to your situation:
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...4onsc4002.html
All these citings for that case as well:
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...002.html#cited
And the costs:
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...4onsc4707.html
Don't be a Breaking Bad Parent.
Good Luck!
TaykenLast edited by Tayken; 11-29-2019, 03:33 AM.
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