Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Am I in A Common Law Relationship?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Am I in A Common Law Relationship?

    I normally spend 6 months a year in Ontario Canada and 6 months in a foreign country. In the foreign country (not USA), I have a girlfriend who has lived in my condo for 4.5 years. I pay all the bills for the condo and provide limited financial support, but in the last few months she has obtained a full-time job. She is not on title for any of my real estate holdings, here or abroad. There are no children.

    1. Am I in a common relationship with my foreign girlfriend?
    2. Can she contact a lawyer in Ontario and get a court order for me to pay her spousal support or obtain a portion of my assets, which are held exclusively in my name?
    3. If I invite her to Canada for a few months, am I exposing myself to negative financial consequences and liabilities?

    The foreign country does not have common law relationships.

  • #2
    I am familiar with Sternat v. Hell, 2010 ONSC 1522, COURT FILE NO.: FS-09-4837, DATE: 2010-03-12

    My case differs in that my companion became financially independent during our time together, completely opposite in Sternat v. Hall, where the companion became financially dependent. My companion obtained a university degree, during our time together, which helped her obtain a suitable job.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the actual answer is something along the lines of "you will never really know until your relationship has broken down and you are standing in front of a judge".

      As an alternative to guessing, why not just have her sign a cohabitation agreement that explicitly protects your property and rules out spousal support? If she refuses, don't bring her to Canada.

      Comment


      • #4
        According to Canadian laws you are in a common-law relationship - you have lived together for 4.5 years. Perhaps you should check the status of your relationship in the country in which you reside with your g/f?

        Your g/f only recently obtained a job and is probably not even past a probationary period. I don't think she would be considered financially independent - she is still supported by you as she lives in your condo.

        Comment


        • #5
          She does not reside in Canada. She lives in another country. She needs to satisfy the jurisdictional requirement in the Divorce Act of being “ordinarily resident” in Ontario. If you bring her to Canada then she might be able to do something. But until then, I believe this is the case law that would help you

          Turning to whether Ontario has jurisdiction under the common law test that requires a real and substantial connection, I agree with the parties that, in the context of marriage breakdown, the presumptive connecting factors are necessarily different from those identified by the Supreme Court in Van Breda in the context of a tort case. …

          [47] While they differ in their view as to where, in this case, the “real home” or ordinary residence of the mother is, both parties submit that the location of the “real home” or “ordinary residence” should be a presumptive connecting factor. This in my view makes eminently good sense. Ordinary residence and habitual residence are the jurisdictional tests under the Divorce Act and the CLRA, respectively. Accepting the “real home” or “ordinary residence” as a presumptive connecting factor, and having concluded that the motion judge did not err in finding that the mother was not ordinarily resident in Ontario, I agree with the motion judge that “[t]he facts of this case do not support the existence of a presumptive connecting factor that would entitle this court to presume jurisdiction.” The mother therefore did not satisfy the “real and substantial connection test”, and the courts of Ontario do not have jurisdiction over the mother’s corollary claims under the FLA. Given this, it is not necessary to address the parties’ arguments on the issue of forum non conveniens.

          Comment


          • #6
            ^ Further to that, seems only ONE of you would have to be living in Ontario. Property must be decided in the country they are in, unless you have property in Ontario that she is after. If there is only property in that country then you could simply ask that she seek relief in her country. If you have property in Ontario then she could seek that in Ontario as well as spousal support. I'm just not sure how she could attend a trial here if she can't come to Canada in the first place (assuming she doesn't have any right to travel to Canada).

            Comment


            • #7
              She needs to satisfy the jurisdictional requirement in the Divorce Act
              They are not married - the divorce act is not relevant to their situation.

              Place where proceeding commenced
              21.11 (1) Proceedings referred to in the Schedule to section 21.8 may be commenced in the Family Court if the applicant or the respondent resides in a part of Ontario where the Family Court has jurisdiction.
              Citation: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90c43#BK35

              This is adopted in Rule 5(1) of the Family Law Rules: A case shall be started in the municipality where a party resides.

              Therefore, a non-resident may file a claim in Ontario for support from an Ontario resident.

              While provincial rules often mirror the Divorce Act, there are differences and those differences can be important. Know what act you are working under.

              Comment


              • #8
                Some more Info

                Originally posted by trinton View Post
                ^ Further to that, seems only ONE of you would have to be living in Ontario. Property must be decided in the country they are in, unless you have property in Ontario that she is after. If there is only property in that country then you could simply ask that she seek relief in her country. If you have property in Ontario then she could seek that in Ontario as well as spousal support. I'm just not sure how she could attend a trial here if she can't come to Canada in the first place (assuming she doesn't have any right to travel to Canada).
                My understanding, in a common law relationship, is that only property to be divided is that property which was jointly purchased, and which can be proven as such. In this case there is no joint property in the other country or Ontario Canada.

                Spousal support is my concern. In one case it said "Even where a spouse has the capacity to be self-sufficient, if the spouse’s ability to enjoy the same standard of living as during the relationship has been adversely affected as a result of the breakdown of the relationship then support, compensatory support, is appropriate to ensure that the economic impact of the breakdown is equitably shared."

                Secondly, "Whether or not a spouse requires support is related directly to “the dependent’s capacity to contribute to his or her own support”, (s.33(9)(c) of the F.L.A.) which, in turn, is relevant when considering the spouse’s “obligation to provide support for himself or herself…to the extent that he or she is capable of doing so.” (s. 30 of the F.L.A.)."

                She could come here if she is invited to Canada, by a Canadian and that Canadian can financially support her during her stay, or if she has proof of adequate funds for her stay.

                Can she commence an action for spousal support without coming to Canada? Perhaps through a law firm?

                She has passed her probationary period for the job. Other employees in the same position and salary support themselves in that country.

                I like the idea of a cohabitation agreement. I guess it would have to be written in both English and her country's native language?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  According to Canadian laws you are in a common-law relationship - you have lived together for 4.5 years. Perhaps you should check the status of your relationship in the country in which you reside with your g/f?

                  Your g/f only recently obtained a job and is probably not even past a probationary period. I don't think she would be considered financially independent - she is still supported by you as she lives in your condo.
                  s. 29(a) of the Act, which provides as follows:
                  “29. In this Part,...
                  “spouse” means a spouse as defined in subsection 1(1), and in addition includes
                  either of two persons who are not married to each other and have cohabited,
                  (a) continuously for a period of not less than three years...”

                  So "continuous" is consistent with 6 months together, 6 months apart?

                  In her country, there is no status and no common law relationship, either you are married on paper, or you are not married.

                  Last month she passed her probation.

                  Others, who have the same job and salary as her, live adequately on the salary. She lives better than her co-workers because she lives with me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can pass on some advice from someone I used to know very well who seemed to be in the same situation as you are.

                    He was/is a very successful professional man... very wealthy. He retired early (50). He was never married and has no children. He has traveled the world. When I met him he was spending 6 months in Thailand and 6 months here. He had been doing that for a few years. He had a few girlfriends (typical) but finally ended up with a favorite. I asked him one time why he didn't bring the g/f with him back here to Canada because it was obvious he missed her. He said that he worked hard and didn't want to see his hard-earned money go to lawyers and a g/f if/when the relationship ended. He said he knew of many men, like him, who had a foreign girlfriend and who lost major money and he wasn't about to do that, not for the very best sex he had ever had in his life.

                    Unless you are willing to take 1/2 of your net worth and give it away I'd think seriously before importing someone. It sounds as though the 'world is your oyster' - why ruin a good thing?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You are right! My situation is almost identical to your friend. Thank you for the advice. I am now using my right head.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cigar7 View Post
                        You are right! My situation is almost identical to your friend. Thank you for the advice. I am now using my right head.
                        My friend was pretty emphatic that he would not even bring her over for a few weeks (cause he'd seen where that led a friend).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is how it works: You bring her over with all good intentions - you want to show her your homeland. You are proud of her so you want all your friends and family to meet her (mistake #1). You set her up in your place and make sure she has money and knows where the store is while you go to work (mistake #2). She becomes lonely and bored and bugs you to take her out. You take her out to the club where she will meet up with people from her home country (mistake #3) as you want her to make new friends and feel comfortable. Time goes on and she does get new friends. Everything is good for a while... or so you think. While you've been working or golfing she's been busy planning her future.

                          The g/f is sizing things up and very impressed with the beautiful home and nice cars etc... your lifestyle is something she wants... the clock is ticking.. she knows you and her will be returning to the other country soon. She finds out through her new friends that all she has to do is get into a fight with you and go to a hotel. She has all the contact numbers of people to call (thanks to her new friends). She gets emergency social assistance (when she says she has no money)... and then ........ a freebie legal aid lawyer.

                          This can all happen in a very short period of time. She may be unsuccessful in the end but meanwhile you have gone through 40k or more in legal bills. She will state that the two of you have lived together for years and that you abandoned her. The nightmare could go on for years. All for what??? You had it good... should have just gotten on that plane and waved "bye bye".... woulda, coulda, shoulda....

                          Canada is a great country ... particularly for people who come from countries that have no social welfare system.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arabian View Post
                            He was/is a very successful professional man... very wealthy. He retired early (50). He was never married and has no children. He has traveled the world. When I met him he was spending 6 months in Thailand and 6 months here. He had been doing that for a few years. He had a few girlfriends (typical) but finally ended up with a favorite. I asked him one time why he didn't bring the g/f with him back here to Canada because it was obvious he missed her. He said that he worked hard and didn't want to see his hard-earned money go to lawyers and a g/f if/when the relationship ended. He said he knew of many men, like him, who had a foreign girlfriend and who lost major money and he wasn't about to do that, not for the very best sex he had ever had in his life.

                            Unless you are willing to take 1/2 of your net worth and give it away I'd think seriously before importing someone. It sounds as though the 'world is your oyster' - why ruin a good thing?
                            Originally posted by arabian View Post
                            This is how it works: You bring her over with all good intentions - you want to show her your homeland. You are proud of her so you want all your friends and family to meet her (mistake #1). You set her up in your place and make sure she has money and knows where the store is while you go to work (mistake #2). She becomes lonely and bored and bugs you to take her out. You take her out to the club where she will meet up with people from her home country (mistake #3) as you want her to make new friends and feel comfortable. Time goes on and she does get new friends. Everything is good for a while... or so you think. While you've been working or golfing she's been busy planning her future.

                            The g/f is sizing things up and very impressed with the beautiful home and nice cars etc... your lifestyle is something she wants... the clock is ticking.. she knows you and her will be returning to the other country soon. She finds out through her new friends that all she has to do is get into a fight with you and go to a hotel. She has all the contact numbers of people to call (thanks to her new friends). She gets emergency social assistance (when she says she has no money)... and then ........ a freebie legal aid lawyer.

                            This can all happen in a very short period of time. She may be unsuccessful in the end but meanwhile you have gone through 40k or more in legal bills. She will state that the two of you have lived together for years and that you abandoned her. The nightmare could go on for years. All for what??? You had it good... should have just gotten on that plane and waved "bye bye".... woulda, coulda, shoulda....

                            Canada is a great country ... particularly for people who come from countries that have no social welfare system.
                            Ugh, this sort of behaviour is despicable, on BOTH sides.

                            The women are basically prostituting themselves for having a great lifestyle and maybe not having to work in their home countries, and the chance to come to Canada, pretending to love the man, but really scheming to dump him and clean him out.

                            The men are basically keeping a prostitute on retainer for their personal sexual use in the other country, while pretending to love the woman, but have no intentions of making it a full and equal relationship.

                            Neither side can ever trust the other. There are no deep feelings; they are only using each other to get what they want (sex/money).

                            This is why the world still needs feminism.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes I agree with you Rioe - when I asked my friend about the moral aspect of things he would shrug and say he treats her very well and how he has helped her out and go on about how he felt he had kept her from a certain future of prostitution with shady people. Canadian female friends who knew him thought he was a disgusting pig. Men who knew him thought he was living the life (those same wealthy men had trophy wives or a combination of wives and mistresses tucked away).

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X