Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Anyone actually receive/pay spousal support?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anyone actually receive/pay spousal support?

    Ex and I are going through division of assets with an arbitrator. Little mention has been made about spousal support even though ex has a company which is doing well and I stayed home as a homemaker for 12 years. Anyway. Ex did pay me $500.00 a month for 12 months when we first separated to help me out. He did this on his lawyer's recommendaton. That generous gesture seems to be it as far as support goes. Everything now is being split 50/50. Ex has a lawyer but I am self represented. Even though I see many questions about spousal support on these forums I am now wondering if anyone has actually recieved it or paid it ? I am in Alberta.

  • #2
    My ex got spousal support for a year, and we were only married for 10 months.

    I am in Alberta, and the courts here are very willing to provide spousal support. Sounds like you were married long enough for you to be entitled for some spousal support.

    Have you been to court? Have you filed anything yet?

    Are there any children? Did you work before and after the children? Have you separated any assets? These are all questions that will need to be considered for a spousal support award.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well I am in the joyful position of paying spousal support. My wife's lawyer told her to live off a line of credit since she quit her job before filing. When we went to court in Ontario the lawyers simply plugged in my company income to divorcemate software. The expenses she submitted were $2000 a month more than the family of 5 lived on. The income plugged in was 2 years after separation and a result of working 60 hoyr weeks away from home. The judge awarded her $6,200 a month. There was one 20 year old daughter living at home and not in scholl but since I was struggling to put her older sister through University the judge decided I should pay $1000 a month (so she wouldn't feel left out). My advice is go for it. The Ontario court system ignores the law and the guidelines. The only downside is that they bankrupt the payor and everyone loses eventually.

      Comment


      • #4
        I guess I will just have to wait to see what happens. I don't want much but I do want to know that I will not be left living a lesser life than I am living now and believe me, I don't live a fancy lifestyle. Ex has his own company and he does not draw a high salary from it so I truly cannot see him paying me much support. We were married for 25 years. Our kids are now adults and one is in University. We have not finalized division of assets but so far everything is being split right down the middle. I don't feel that 50/50 split is fair as I stayed home raising the kids while ex built up has business. Now I am 50 years old and cannot find a job paying what I should be making had I not stayed home with the kids. Meanwhile ex's business is growing and has potential to do quite well.

        Comment


        • #5
          I pay and have absolutely no issue with it, given that our agreement is very fair and predictable.

          We did not use income splitting but rather a simple business like approach where I pay for most of the damage to her career (a unionized nurse), as she stayed home with kids. She re certified as a nurse (which we both paid for equally out of family assets), then started near the bottom of the pay scale. Had she not stayed home with kids she would have been at top of pay scale so I pay her 2/3 of what she is missing out on, for 6 years when she should be at top of pay scale again (if she does what she should, if she does not, that is not my concern). Simple and fair and easy to calculate.

          Of course all assets need to be split equally, but this would include the value of the company.

          In your case though, from what you have said, you may be entitled to ownership in the company (perhaps 50&#37 or other form of spousal support given the length of marriage and possible permanent damage to your earning potential. I do believe in a clean break, meaning that your support should be based on what happened in the marriage, not on the future, and that you should work very hard to maximize your income.

          What he draws from the business is not really relevant as he controls that, it is what the company is worth and how much the company earns. For example, I pay child support not based on what I pay myself, but on what my company earns (a 1 man company).

          Perhaps if you get an evaluation of the company (which include future earnings potential and risk), you can offer that he buys you out of your 50% (which may be a substantial) in lieu of SS, OR, you use divorce mate (yuck) and forever tie your two incomes and lives together and share incomes.
          Last edited by billm; 10-04-2010, 10:36 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do not wait and see what happens! Do some research, and find out what you need.

            Your approach of,” I don’t want much but I don’t want to be left living a lesser life”, is not going to serve you well.

            My situation is very similar to yours, and I have been very naïve believing my ex. when he said he would treat me fairly. The reality is very different. Because of age, no established career, trying to get some education (that I am paying for), so I can get some sort of income in order to support myself (at a minimal level), means what he believes to be fair, is anything but. When all is said and done, the difference in our current and future incomes is vast, and time is against me. I don’t have 25 years, (as he has had) to establish and advance a career. I can get a job, I’m not trying to avoid that, but it is highly unlikely I will ever come close to what his career pays.

            My lawyer tried to point all of this out to me, and I continued to believe, as you do, that I don’t want much, just don’t want to retire and live in poverty. Until I saw a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA™), I did not fully understand how the division of assets would affect me in the future. Whatever deal he is trying to sell to you is in his best interest, not yours. You are vulnerable right now and maybe confused.

            billm has given some very good suggestions, that would be a good place to start. You need some financial support, and you will need to find out what that looks like.

            Comment


            • #7
              This information is from a website for a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA™).

              10 Financial "Must-Knows"
              to Successfully Survive Your Divorce

              By Sharon Numerow
              1. Money will almost always become an issue in divorce
                • Many people start out thinking and believing the promise that things will always be divided evenly and straightforward
                • Money is sometimes used as a bargaining tool to resolve other issues
              2. Gather everything you can about your family finances
                • Make a list of your financial property
                • Gather statements and documents on all property
                • Frequently one partner is not "in-the-know" on the family finances which makes this task difficult
              3. Understand that a 50/50 division of property is not always fair financially
                • Take into account future value of property
                • Comparable values of different types of property are not always equal due to tax implications
              4. Consider the tax implications of all of your financial divorce decisions
                • Consider the year in which you divorce, your change in marital status will affect your tax situation
                • Consider the tax effect and true value of the assets you will retain
              5. Make sure that you can afford to keep the house before you settle this matter
                • Pre-qualify for a mortgage
                • Upkeep costs can be expensive, both financially and emotionally
              6. Understand the value of your investment and RRSP portfolios
                • Understand tax liabilities and advantages of different investments
              7. Ensure pensions are properly valued
                • Defined Benefit Plans must always be valued by a specialist
              8. Make sure that the payor of child and/or spousal support has life insurance to support these financial obligations
              9. Seek FINANCIAL consultation during your divorce from a divorce financial expert not from a lawyer
              10. Redo your will

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for all the information. Usually I am a very positive person but I must admit I feel defeated in this whole mediation/arbitration process. The arbitrator does seem to side with ex. For example, ex and I have one son who is 18 and away at University. Arbitrator told us ex does not have to pay child support. Instead he should send our son $100.00 a month for a living allowance. Can you believe that? Ex makes $100,000.00 per year and I am between jobs. My last job did pay $45,000.00 but I was term and the term has ended. At this point I think I must face reality and prepare for the worst. This process has dragged on for 3 years so now we have opted for the mediatior/arbitrator. I am so tired and so broke I just want this to end.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My experience is almost parallel to yours. We saw a mediator that seemed to side with him, he argues better and produces many spread sheets that seem to support his arguments, although once I have a chance to go over them, they are very flawed, but they certainly make him look like he knows what he is talking about.

                  I suspect you are feeling run down by the whole process. I feel the same way. What has helped me see everything in a very clear way, is the financial expert. My lawyer can run calculations based on the programs he has, but it is the financial expert that explains in very real terms, exactly how this will impact my life. For me, the advice of these two experts helps.

                  What your ex is proposing for child support seems low, but you should get some advice on this. I think someone on this forum has said you can get free advice, for child support, at the FLIC at the court house, but I have not used this service.

                  If you have not sought some sort of legal advice about your own particular situation, you should. I made this mistake. You can’t negotiate for yourself, if you don’t know where you should start. I allowed myself to believe that both the negotiator and my ex. would not work outside what the law allows, they did and it has cost me in legal fees to try and change this. You don’t have to pay a lot in legal fees if you know where should stand.

                  Many on this forum advise to try negotiating and then file with the courts. After three years I’m sure you have been trying to avoid this, it’s a scary decision, I know, but it does stop the endless negotiating and forces your ex to sit up and listen.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is my update. It has been a long and winding road to say the least. Nothing has been signed yet but at the last meeting Ex showed his company's financials and his company has been reporting a loss for the last 2 years and therefore his income is grossly overstated. To make a long story short, I am now making what ex makes even though he claimed his income was approx $100,000.00 on his 2009 income tax return. It appears he has been overpaying himself- this decision from our arbitrator. I will not receive any spousal support and I am supposed to consider myself lucky that ex is not asking me for support. ( A reminder that I did not work for several years while the raising the kids and I am now in my mid fifties re-entering the work force) Ex has, out of the goodness of his heart, offered to pay our son's university expenses for the next 3 years if I agree to no spousal support. I am self represented so now I am supposed to run this by a lawyer so we can make this agreement a binding contract. That is how division of assets and spousal support are done in Alberta- the past is not considered and neither is the future. Only what is brought to the table at a very specific time is looked at and the divisons are made from there. Do I feel that I have been financially cheated on? Yes. Do I feel that my Ex had an advantage with having his high cost lawyer? Yes. Do I feel the arbitrator sided with Ex and his Lawyer? Definatley.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In my experience, the past and the future is considered.

                      Do not agree to anything until you get some legal advice. You may feel that a lawyer is to expensive, but the alternative is you agree to a settlement that is not in your best interest.

                      If you go to a lawyer with specific questions, you would only be paying for a small amount of time, and don't feel pressured to agree to something just because it has been 3 years.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Holly View Post
                        I don't feel that 50/50 split is fair as I stayed home raising the kids while ex built up has business. Now I am 50 years old and cannot find a job paying what I should be making had I not stayed home with the kids. Meanwhile ex's business is growing and has potential to do quite well.
                        There are different ways of judging the situation. Let us start by assuming that the marriage was miserable -- that is why you two are divorcing.

                        Holly,
                        In one of your questions, you asked if something was fair. Fair is not the same as legal. The law does not really deal with fairness because everybody approaches divorce feeling wronged in the marriage.

                        You are in a similar position as my wife except that our marriage is much shorter. What I write below is simply for the purposes of offering a different frame of reference when thinking of what is fair.

                        Let me start off by saying that I do not believe my wife was a good wife. I believe she was grossly unfair and disrespectful to me for the vast majority of our marriage. The reasons do not really matter at this point. Just understand that is how I perceive things.

                        While married, I was never able to fire my wife when I perceived her to have done a poor quality performance in her "job" as home-maker. On the other hand, my job was at the whim of the markets. So, it is not fair to assume an equivalency with what she perceives she should have made otherwise because in the real workforce, people get fired when they do a poor job or when the working relationship is miserable.
                        Second, I managed to grow a company DESPITE the misery in my marriage and DESPITE my wife's actions in destabilizing our household finances.

                        According to your reasoning up above, it might conceivably be fair for my wife to owe me because my company could have arguably done better had the marriage not been miserable. However, the law does not see things that way but I am going to use every single maneuvre I can possibly negotiate and afford to get what I believe is fair -- fair for me, that is. Naturally, my wife feels entitled to more.




                        I am of the opinion that the conventional 50/50 split of asset division is absurd in the instances where there are children of the marriage. The fair way of dividing assets would be to divide them amongst both the parents and the children with the parents being trustees in the value of the newly divided assets until the children reach the age of majority.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Holly, don’t substitute Anarxs judgment for your own. His rationalization is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

                          Your marriage was longer, your circumstances are different, and you sound frustrated and worn down by this process. Try and find the support you need so you can make a better informed decision. You might need to see a financial expert, a lawyer, and a therapist or counselor, probably all three. If your ex. is pressuring you to hurry up and make a decision, tell him you need more time to decide what’s best for your future. This is your future.

                          I don’t know the details of your relationship or the details or your divorce, but if you are feeling that this offer is not right, then please get another opinion, don’t just settle for the sake of getting it over with. Don’t regret your decision five years from now when things have settled down and you’re feeling a lot better about yourself.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            AnarX, I agree that fair and legal cannot always be interwined. In this situation though, I think they can and should be used together. The problem here lies in that, like my situation, one person, ie. the husband, is left with the means to do well financially after the divorce but the other person, the wife, is left without means to do well because she stayed home for several years with the kids while also giving her husband time to devote to the business which he was supposed to be developing for the family- which does include his wife. The stay-at-home wife loses business contacts while the at work husband makes contacts. The homemaker loses work experience while the wage earner gains experience. One person's income increases while the other person's income decreases. On and on it goes. Therefore I think it only fair that the wife should get some sort of compensation for giving up financially because she was able to give her time to the home and the children. That is where spousal support is supposed to come in to action but in my case it does not. My situation gets complicated because while we were married, and I was a homemaker, ex's business was doing well and thus he paid himself a good income. After I filed for divorce ex proceeded to lose the business ( due to his other hobbies) so now he makes very little income from his company and I am left with very little also. He still has the means to do well, in my humble opinion, but I am not so fortunate because of my gap in employment. I am questioning if my lack of receiving spousal support is fair or unfair. That is what I have to find out. I am not questioning the legality of the situation. I am wondering if I should accept ex's offer or if I should ask for some changes before this becomes a legal (and perhaps unfair) binding contract.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Have you considered having an income imputed to him?

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X