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  • Lawyer recommendations

    I'm new to the Ottawa area and am seeking any recommendations for the top divorce lawyers in Ottawa. I am dealing with an abusive situation (psychological, verbal, financial and emotional) and the case will absolutely become high conflict. I have to protect my very young children from this so, I am seeking the names of the top family law litigators in Ottawa. Any names or advice for this situation would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    How much are you planning on investing in this court case? What is the upper range of what you are willing to spend?

    What kind of assets are we fighting over? Do you guys own a multi-million dollar company or are you both salaried employees?

    Do you have kids or is this just about money?

    It does not have to be high conflict. Your ex might be a horrible person, but you can easily come to an agreement even with somebody that you absolutely despise.

    Comment


    • #3
      Everyone says their divorce is high conflict and (almost) everyone says their ex is abusive and/or unreasonable.

      You can find a junk yard dog lawyer who fights tooth and nail for everything you want but that doesn’t mean you deserve it. Plus it won’t be cheap.

      Best advice is this: do some reading on family law, divorce, custody, child and spousal support. Find out what you are entitled to and what you are willing to settle for. Don’t use your kids as pawns and don’t expect your ex to fund your lifestyle indefinitely.

      From there, lay out a plan for custody (don’t withhold your kids, he is their dad, you chose him to be their father, he has rights whether you like it or not) and that will help determine child support. Then look at your life and employability. Figure out if you can get a job (if you don’t have one) and what training you would need to get there.

      Then start discussing the splitting of assets etc. Fighting from a place of anger and hate solves nothing and costs thousands. You may despise your ex but he is still the childrens father and should be a part of their lives.

      You can find any lawyer to tell you what you want to hear and will pay them to do that bidding. What you actually want is a lawyer who will he honest and be smart about your bottom line as well as theirs. You can help with that by understanding what you are entitled to and being realistic on yours and your kids futures.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am willing to spend whatever it takes to be free and to protect the children. New things coming to light about his previous relationship where he was physically abusive to his ex and also the children, which I was completely unaware of. He has also had altercations with the daycare provider which caused termination of the children's care. I realize that most people believe their cases will be high conflict, however most people arent divorcing a person with diagnosed NPD, this is where it gets tricky in my case. I am having difficulty finding information on a legal representative who has experience nd indepth knowledge with NPD. There are no major assets a house and 2 cars , we are both working professionals and I am able to support myself on my salary, the only thing I will be fighting tooth and nail for is limited time spent with the children as the studies show increased exposure to issues related to this disorder are detrimental to children's healthy development. I also know it is very rare that there will be no contact and I accept that he has a right to be in their lives, I just want to be able to have as little as possible for the health and safety of the children. We are currently still living in the same household as I need go plan my exit safely and properly, there are beginning attempts at parental alienation tactics occurring before my eyes, conditioning almost. I am in a difficult situation and therefore need to choose my legal representation wisely- so the recommendations I am looking for is someone who has experience with high conflict, NPD situations and who will fight for my children's futures.
        Any other advice on what evidence is helpful for these cases based on personal experience would be appreciated - I have text messages, emails, voice recorded threats and written journal style documentation of events. I am also attending therapy.
        Any and all information would be helpful.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Janus View Post
          How much are you planning on investing in this court case? What is the upper range of what you are willing to spend?

          What kind of assets are we fighting over? Do you guys own a multi-million dollar company or are you both salaried employees?

          Do you have kids or is this just about money?

          It does not have to be high conflict. Your ex might be a horrible person, but you can easily come to an agreement even with somebody that you absolutely despise.
          " I have to protect my very young children"...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Penelope753 View Post
            I am willing to spend whatever it takes to be free and to protect the children. New things coming to light about his previous relationship where he was physically abusive to his ex and also the children, which I was completely unaware of. He has also had altercations with the daycare provider which caused termination of the children's care. I realize that most people believe their cases will be high conflict, however most people arent divorcing a person with diagnosed NPD, this is where it gets tricky in my case. I am having difficulty finding information on a legal representative who has experience nd indepth knowledge with NPD. There are no major assets a house and 2 cars , we are both working professionals and I am able to support myself on my salary, the only thing I will be fighting tooth and nail for is limited time spent with the children as the studies show increased exposure to issues related to this disorder are detrimental to children's healthy development. I also know it is very rare that there will be no contact and I accept that he has a right to be in their lives, I just want to be able to have as little as possible for the health and safety of the children. We are currently still living in the same household as I need go plan my exit safely and properly, there are beginning attempts at parental alienation tactics occurring before my eyes, conditioning almost. I am in a difficult situation and therefore need to choose my legal representation wisely- so the recommendations I am looking for is someone who has experience with high conflict, NPD situations and who will fight for my children's futures.
            Any other advice on what evidence is helpful for these cases based on personal experience would be appreciated - I have text messages, emails, voice recorded threats and written journal style documentation of events. I am also attending therapy.
            Any and all information would be helpful.

            May I ask you how and where your ex was diagnosed with NPD? Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Penelope753 View Post
              New things coming to light about his previous relationship where he was physically abusive to his ex and also the children, which I was completely unaware of.
              Not relevant to your case.

              He has also had altercations with the daycare provider which caused termination of the children's care.
              Did they press charges? If not, irrelevant.

              , however most people arent divorcing a person with diagnosed NPD,
              You have an actual medical diagnosis yes? You have reported his actions to CAS and the police? You have left the home for a shelter?

              I will be fighting tooth and nail for is limited time spent with the children
              You have CAS involved? The children have seen a therapist who has documented this? You have spoken to the police? You have left the home for safety?

              I just want to be able to have as little as possible for the health and safety of the children.
              Unless he is deemed a threat to the children this will be moot. Your children are also HIS children and he may not be a good person but if he isn’t a threat you are out of luck. Go search iona’s posts. Her husband was physically abusive and threatened to kill her and their child. He still sees his daughter and will work up to an increased schedule. You don’t set the rules and best advice is to not go out of the gate like that.

              there are beginning attempts at parental alienation tactics occurring before my eyes, conditioning almost.
              CAS? Police?

              I am in a difficult situation and therefore need to choose my legal representation wisely- so the recommendations I am looking for is someone who has experience with high conflict, NPD situations and who will fight for my children's futures.

              Any other advice on what evidence is helpful for these cases based on personal experience would be appreciated - I have text messages, emails, voice recorded threats and written journal style documentation of events. I am also attending therapy.

              Any and all information would be helpful.

              Have you reported his behaviour to CAS or the police? You may want to contact a local women’s shelter to get some info and advice.

              You also should remember two important things—who he is in this situation may be different than who is in real life. Divorce is highly charged and emotional. People say horrible things. That does not mean he will be that person with the kids going forward. Plus if he goes through some therapy and training he could manage better. My husband’s ex claimed he was emotionally abusive and had an anger management problem. In the decade I have known him he has not been this way. I have witnessed HER emotional abuse and manipulative behaviour though and we have learned (through therapy) that his responses to her were normal responses to emotional abuse.

              Second thing to remember is he too could find a tough lawyer who calls you out and trashes your evidence. Which is why I saw call CAS and the shelter to get some info and possibly report abuse if present.

              I am not saying I don’t believe you, I am saying that you need to get your ducks in a row and have everything you need in place to demand supervised access and therapy.

              Comment


              • #8
                I guess this is why it is so difficult for victims of domestic violence to leave. Anything other than physical abuse isnt a criminal offence, and most often people reaching out for help end up feeling worse because of the questions and advice they receive- victim blaming is very real in this scenario- and of course he will try and trash my evidence, I am not naive that he has parental rights, what I want to do is to protect my children from suffering the same physical and psychological abuse his previous child suffered from- who now refuses contact. You are right I chose to make him the father of my children because of the NPD pattern of behaviour I fell for the love bombing, then became a victim of gaslighting and fear.

                That is why my question was for advice on compiling proper evidence to support my claim, there are two sides to every story and I want to be sure my side is painted as clearly as possible. Perhaps I wasnt clear earlier, I haven't even left yet because I am trying to get my affairs in order to do so safely and to protect my legal rights. Hence the question of documentation and evidence as well as some names of lawyers in the area whom I might have the best luck with getting advice and informed decision making. Thanks for your reply.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Penelope753 View Post
                  I guess this is why it is so difficult for victims of domestic violence to leave. Anything other than physical abuse isnt a criminal offence, and most often people reaching out for help end up feeling worse because of the questions and advice they receive- victim blaming is very real in this scenario- and of course he will try and trash my evidence, I am not naive that he has parental rights, what I want to do is to protect my children from suffering the same physical and psychological abuse his previous child suffered from- who now refuses contact. You are right I chose to make him the father of my children because of the NPD pattern of behaviour I fell for the love bombing, then became a victim of gaslighting and fear.



                  That is why my question was for advice on compiling proper evidence to support my claim, there are two sides to every story and I want to be sure my side is painted as clearly as possible. Perhaps I wasnt clear earlier, I haven't even left yet because I am trying to get my affairs in order to do so safely and to protect my legal rights. Hence the question of documentation and evidence as well as some names of lawyers in the area whom I might have the best luck with getting advice and informed decision making. Thanks for your reply.


                  I am not against abuse victims or attempting to shame anyone. I was emotionally abused by my parents and my husband was emotionally abused by his ex. I have had years of therapy to identify what is and isn’t abuse and how to respond and remove myself from it.

                  This is why I suggest you speak to experts in this field in addition to a lawyer. Judges hear the abuse line all the time. They look for facts. CAS will help you understand how to manage your situation and what you need to do “to protect (your) children”. A women’s shelter will also have good advice. As mentioned, iona is a good member to search threads from as well as Frostrated who recently dealt with severe emotional abuse and sought support from a women’s shelter.

                  Abuse victims are “shamed” for not doing something about it. You can talk to a therapist, support network, CAS without filing for divorce or moving out. Going straight to a lawyer is a good idea but having a parachute so to speak is even better. These organizations exist to protect victims of domestic abuse and they know what to say and do to assist you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Penelope753 View Post
                    I guess this is why it is so difficult for victims of domestic violence to leave. Anything other than physical abuse isnt a criminal offence, and most often people reaching out for help end up feeling worse because of the questions and advice they receive- victim blaming is very real in this scenario- and of course he will try and trash my evidence, I am not naive that he has parental rights, what I want to do is to protect my children from suffering the same physical and psychological abuse his previous child suffered from- who now refuses contact. You are right I chose to make him the father of my children because of the NPD pattern of behaviour I fell for the love bombing, then became a victim of gaslighting and fear.

                    That is why my question was for advice on compiling proper evidence to support my claim, there are two sides to every story and I want to be sure my side is painted as clearly as possible. Perhaps I wasnt clear earlier, I haven't even left yet because I am trying to get my affairs in order to do so safely and to protect my legal rights. Hence the question of documentation and evidence as well as some names of lawyers in the area whom I might have the best luck with getting advice and informed decision making. Thanks for your reply.
                    Don't argue with us. Get a good lawyer- and let them help present the evidence.

                    Rocksan is giving good advice of being very careful about how you frame things- and even the wording around presenting your situation. Dispassionately and with facts. Although I wish I had never gone through it- my ex's absolutely batshit behaviour towards the end of our marriage, the assault and threats- and ultimately his arrest and charges are what turned my matter. And the skepticism you'll find here is that "abuse" gets thrown at dads 9 times out of 10.

                    I think it was Hammerdad who said to me in one of my very first posts that I had to work with my ex to set the schedule for our daughter- or else the court was going to do it for us. And I might not like that very much.

                    Know this- your ex might be all the things you say. But he's going to have time with his kids. Your job from here on out- is to mitigate and limit the damage he can do. That's your only job. IF your ex is everything you say- then you are the shelter in the storm for your kids. You can only do that if you are healthy. So you need to get therapy for yourself. You need to learn to deal with your ex.

                    I had a friend in Ottawa dealing with some of the same issues you identified, I made some inquiries for...these are some lawyers I found. I haven't dealt with any of them personally.


                    Marta Siemiarczuk- is the one referred to by my lawyer. https://nelliganlaw.ca/people/marta-siemiarczuk/

                    http://mackinnonphillips.com/lawyers/

                    http://vvblawyers.com/family-law/

                    http://www.yourlawfirm.ca/lawyers_reynolds.html

                    https://www.ccla-abcc.ca/members/?id=22211870 - Kerri Ross I heard is good.
                    Last edited by iona6656; 11-06-2019, 03:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Penelope753 View Post
                      I am willing to spend whatever it takes to be free and to protect the children.

                      So, for example, would you be willing to spend $90,000 on this court case? That is not even the upper limit of course, but if your opponent is truly an intractable adversary who is completely high conflict, you are probably looking at spending at least that much.


                      My recommendation in that case would be to go for a cheap lawyer. This is going to drag on, and if you get a "top" lawyer, the likely result is that you will run out of money before the trial and have to self-represent. A normal lawyer is just as good as a top lawyer unless your case is especially complex.


                      Offhand, your case does not sound especially complex.


                      however most people arent divorcing a person with diagnosed NPD
                      Do you have any documentation that provides this diagnosis?


                      I will be fighting tooth and nail for is limited time spent with the children
                      You are hoping to alienate the kids from their father.


                      there are beginning attempts at parental alienation tactics occurring before my eyes, conditioning almost.
                      He is looking to alienate the kids from you.


                      I will be fighting tooth and nail for is limited time spent with the children
                      So you are hoping to alienate the kids from their father.


                      there are beginning attempts at parental alienation tactics occurring before my eyes, conditioning almost.
                      So he is looking to alienate the kids from you.


                      The good news is that you will possibly both get your wish.


                      I am looking for is someone who has experience with high conflict, NPD situations and who will fight for my children's futures.
                      Any lawyer you hire will have experience and will fight for your children's futures. Well, they will fight because you pay them, don't ever forget that no lawyer will actually care about your children.


                      Seriously, I'm not just saying that. If you pay a lawyer they will fight for you. Another lawyer will be fighting for your ex. Neither lawyer will actually be fighting for the kids. The court may order a lawyer for the kids, but that's not a guarantee, and that lawyer will not work for you.


                      The only thing I can guarantee is that the fight will devastate your children's financial future. Instead of owning a house, you will be renting for the rest of your life. Instead of two cars, you will be taking public transit. Your kids will have to take loans and work to pay for university. All because you couldn't even consider a resolution that didn't involve a massive legal fight.


                      But hot damn, as you sip that wine drink, you will be able to watch the sun set on a grateful world, knowing that a narcissist got his comeuppance.


                      Get a cheap lawyer, you can always move to an expensive one later.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What kind of schedule do you want?


                        Would you be ok with your ex having every other weekend with the kids? Do you have an end goal in mind beyond "minimum time possible"?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You can always check lawyerratingz.com to see how lawyers have faired in terms of reviews. Careful though as some lawyers ask that you rate them in exchange for a reduction on the invoice.

                          But, WHOA!, fight tooth and nail to limit or restrict the father's ability to see his kids? Spin it the other way. Fight tooth and nail to prevent your kids from having a relationship with their father?? As the Respondent to an Applicant who tried to do exactly that, I can tell you it will not work, and you will only spend LOTS of money. Money that can go towards your kids rather than a new cottage for your lawyer. Also, caution that there is tons of case law where mothers who are caught purposely denying/restricting/impeding meaningful access often lose custody altogether.

                          Allegations? Been there, done that. Had every allegation possible thrown at me, including the ones you mention and worse. Everyone says abuse and mental health disorders in court papers. Judges hear it each and every day. Is there a diagnosis, or is it just your opinion? Your opinion on the matter has zero weight. Abuse? Against who, and what kind? Are there police reports, or are you just saying he's emotionally abusive. Ever against the kids? Is this just your word? If yes, it has no weight. Couples argue, raise voices, get hurt feelings. Does not mean he will be abusive to the kids. Further, he can always take courses or counseling to address your concerns. Judges don't want to hear about how you argued with your ex, they want to set the new living arrangements for the kids. Period.

                          Based on what I read in this thread, and my own experience dealing with someone who had the same motives, I can predict how you will spend over $100k easily:
                          (1) You pepper your lawyer with endless phone calls where you whine on how mean your ex is. If you want to talk to him about how the last exchange was unpleasant, he will listen, but he will also bill you for it. Talk to your friends, or a therapist, its cheaper.
                          (2) You pepper your lawyer with every text, email, voicemail over incidents from past years where you thought your ex was mean to you. He will read everything, bill you, and none of it will ever make it into court.
                          (3) You and/or your ex file lengthy court documents that costs thousands to produce/review that don't focus on the issues. Focus on custody and access. Not whether or not your ex is mean.
                          (4) Useless settlement negotiations where you and your ex jockey for positions, fighting over every minute detail that in the end has little consequence, such as who has the child on a random snow day school closure that may never even happen.
                          (5) Useless settlement conferences that make no progress and only cause delay in your case (that can go on for YEARS) and will run you and your ex out of money.

                          What you want is closure ASAP. Set a trial date ASAP if you think negotiations will be useless. In high conflict, both sides are unreasonable and it's the lawyers that win. Be reasonable, and make reasonable offers. Take the high road. Judges don't want to see grown adults act like kids fighting over their kids.

                          The one who ACTS and IS reasonable will prevail. And everyone thinks THEY are the reasonable one.....so as mentioned, do your research and find out what reasonable exactly is. If you focus your papers on bashing your ex, you will lose. As FYI, the legislation looks to implement a "maximum contact principle" being that the child has the right to as much contact with EACH parent as possible. Usually that's 50/50, unless it is proven that 50/50 would harm the child. The fact that you don't like or disagree with 50/50 is not a reason. A damaging police report or CAS report is reason. Living 2 hour apart is a reason. The fact that you don't get along with your ex is not a reason. Think of your kids, and the fact that their reality now consists of mom's house and dad's house. Dad can be parent, not just be a "visitor". This is your new reality.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm going through a messed up divorce with someone that is diagnosed BPD and likely NPD (I guess I should simply say cluster-B since there is a lot of comorbidity in there). Good luck, it will be expensive, and make sure you cross the T's and dot the I's. Document, document, document. You'll need proof of your claims.

                            Give this a read: http://fishermediation.com/media/pdf...ntsREPRINT.pdf

                            It's been a terrible year, cops, CAS, suicide threats in front of the kids, ex went through many lawyers, she is in criminal court as well. I have spent 15k on lawyer fees, with not much to show, and we aren't even started because the case conference has been post-poned twice by the ex. OCL will be involved whenever the ex fills the paperwork (or I file for contempt)

                            Through all of this, I'm not prohibiting communications or contact between mom and the kids. I just want it to be safe, and sane. Yes, this means going for full custody in my case, well that's what I believe. Yes, they'll go visit the ex, eventually unsupervised, and who knows, maybe sleep there at some point. But I'm not letting that happen in the near future, and I have the paperwork and CAS to support my position. But each case is different.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gettingexpensive View Post
                              I'm going through a messed up divorce with someone that is diagnosed BPD and likely NPD (I guess I should simply say cluster-B since there is a lot of comorbidity in there).
                              You are in the 3% pool. BPD is an even more rare diagnosis in Canada. Not saying you are lying its just the odds of this are diagnosis is in winning the lottery level of statistics.

                              The other parent will self destruct in the courtroom if this is the case. You don't actually have to do much work. BPD person will do it all for you. Court room is the best place to bring them as they will not behave to the rules of the court room.

                              The one case I observed that had a truly diagnosed BPD the person actually got up from the desk beside their lawyer... ran over to the other party on the other side of the courtroom and physically started assaulting them while the judge was walking into the courtroom.

                              Fastest order ever made. The judge hadn't even sat down yet!

                              The poor bailiff didn't know what to do. The lawyer representing the person with BPD was totally blown away.

                              The other matter I observed is well known to this forum but, the person in question has never been diagnosed. But, highly suspected of having an Axis II disorder. They vomited in the courtroom and feigned sickness and passed out. Histrionics were ripe on that one! Funny thing is that the vomiting incident was at purge court even.

                              Comment

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