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  • Ex caught perjurying himself after perging his contempt

    The judge purged his contempt for failing to file his taxes but the judge also made it clear he was going to be penalized for his behavior

    I was allowed to ask questions of him afterwards.

    I asked 4 questions, 2 of which he lied too.

    1)He said my former lawyer did not tell him he needed to to hand in his taxes prior to the date on the final order even if he had no income, which he did. Evidence was an affidavit I had from the lawyers assistant

    2)That the judge 2 years ago didn't threaten to strike his record if he didn't hand his tax documents in by the next court date, which he did. Evidence was a judges endorsement I had

    I handed in evidence proving he did so.

    He blatantly lied on the stand so that his punishment would be lessened

    The judge adjourned the case right after I handed in evidence. What steps should I take, concerning the perjury?

  • #2
    What do you want to happen to your ex?

    Purgury is a criminal matter and your ex could be fined or end up in jail. Do you want that?

    Comment


    • #3
      I know it would drive you crazy, but in my understanding the judge may have gotten angry but adjourned to avoid letting his anger send your ex to jail etc.

      my ex and her liar both lied bold faced to the judge, i did the same thing: handed documents proving it to be a lie. the judge didnt even say a word about it. just completely ignored that she was lied to!

      in the beginning i did believe that the judges would care, but it looks like they really dont.

      Comment


      • #4
        just completely ignored that she was lied to!
        There is nothing for the judge to do besides consider the evidence. It will have had an effect on their credibility, which damages their case.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hammerdad im confused by your logic.Do you also believe that women who file false claims of spousal abuse should be left scot free and not face justice either?The legal system is supposed to be built on honesty and fair play.When you enter into legal proceedings ,you know the game rules,they are there for your protection as well as the other party.It isn't a joke

          .Do people who lie on their tax returns not deserve what they get either?(Its most likely not going to be too serious a punishment anyway.Community service max).My ex lies and lies and lies and nobody seems to care how often his lies are proved false....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
            There is nothing for the judge to do besides consider the evidence. It will have had an effect on their credibility, which damages their case.
            it was a motion judge, i doubt she would have written this in her notes or reason for judgement, could these (verbal) lies be brought up at the trial?

            arent lawyers bound by some sort of code of conduct that bounds them not to lie? my ex and her lawyer are both in a death race to win the "champion of liars" award

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
              it was a motion judge, i doubt she would have written this in her notes or reason for judgement, could these (verbal) lies be brought up at the trial?

              arent lawyers bound by some sort of code of conduct that bounds them not to lie? my ex and her lawyer are both in a death race to win the "champion of liars" award
              My ex and his lawyer have got to get entered into that race

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                Hammerdad im confused by your logic.Do you also believe that women who file false claims of spousal abuse should be left scot free and not face justice either?The legal system is supposed to be built on honesty and fair play.When you enter into legal proceedings ,you know the game rules,they are there for your protection as well as the other party.It isn't a joke

                .Do people who lie on their tax returns not deserve what they get either?(Its most likely not going to be too serious a punishment anyway.Community service max).My ex lies and lies and lies and nobody seems to care how often his lies are proved false....
                Did I say anything about any of that? Simply asked what the OP wanted to accomplish and noted that pergury is a criminal offense with punishment by fine and/or inprisonment.

                This will obviously effect the OP's ex's credibility, thus gain the OP ground in their trial. This is also something that family law judges see each and every day and do nothing about outside of take it into consideration when determine credibility.

                The reality is, unless the pergury is blatent and extreme, a judge is unlikely to do anything about. Same goes for women who make false accusations. The judges won't do much unless it is extremely damaging to the other party outside of how it effects that persons credibility.

                It sucks, I hate it when people lie. But in instances like this, the punishment must fit the crime. Unless the OP was extremely adversely affected, there is little reason to impose criminal charges.

                Comment


                • #9
                  arent lawyers bound by some sort of code of conduct that bounds them not to lie?
                  Lawyers cannot lie to the court. Doing so opens them to being reported to the law society.

                  Keep in mind, if they are representing your ex's story - and the facts as he told them - then they will be viewed as mistaken, not lying.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                    Lawyers cannot lie to the court. Doing so opens them to being reported to the law society.

                    Keep in mind, if they are representing your ex's story - and the facts as he told them - then they will be viewed as mistaken, not lying.
                    But, should the lawyer in question, who was "mistaken" be caught repeating the same "mistake" in oral arguments again or allowing their client to swear an affidavit to the "mistaken" information in the future then the LSUC should be called on to investigate their conduct.

                    Mistakes on a specific detail happen once. Lies are consistent and repeated.

                    Also, think about the credibility that the client now has with their lawyer too. They miss represented a fact to the lawyer, the lawyer raised it as a fact as stated by their client to them and the opposing party provided cogent and relevant evidence (documents) that directly abolishes the lawyer's argument which was premised on their clients "belief" that what they were told was "truthful".

                    Now, depending on the "mistake", a good lawyer should leave the file. A negative advocate lawyer will roll with the punches and continue to take every "belief" with no supporting "evidence" as "truthful" from their client and continue the conflict.

                    It is always interesting to see negative advocate lawyers waving their fingers in court for a 10 minute statement to a judge and a one line response from a solutions oriented lawyer produce counter evidence that the last 10 minutes of "telling it to the judge" was a waste of everyone's time because they didn't bother to check the "facts". Real evidence, not just a statement of "belief". (A document that is authentic, medical report/medical records, email, our family wizard, social media posting, previous year's tax return for the opposing lawyer's client, the opposing lawyer's client's job contract, etc...)

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mistakes on a specific detail happen once. Lies are consistent and repeated.
                      For some clarification, if one party says A and the other party says B, then one lawyer will be stating A and the other lawyer B; neither is lying, although at least one is probably wrong.

                      They miss represented a fact to the lawyer, the lawyer raised it as a fact as stated by their client to them and the opposing party provided cogent and relevant evidence (documents) that directly abolishes the lawyer's argument which was premised on their clients "belief" that what they were told was "truthful".
                      Breakdown in faith between lawyer and client is grounds for terminating the retainer. I know lawyers who have fired clients for lying to them, since it reduces the lawyer's effectiveness and can lead to professional embarrassment.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                        For some clarification, if one party says A and the other party says B, then one lawyer will be stating A and the other lawyer B; neither is lying, although at least one is probably wrong.
                        That is if you have a negative advocate solicitor who has no cogent and relevant evidence other than hearsay from their client to statements of belief.

                        Lawyer A - My client was a stay at home parent!!!

                        Lawyer B - Your honour, attached to my client's affidavit in schedule X is a copy of the Applicant's tax filings between the years x through y. During the course of the marriage the Applicant had a gross income of x,xxx,xxxx which averages to xxx,xxxx income a year. Furthermore, your honour, you will note that I provided my friend a copy of this cogent and relevent evidence to her clients "stay at home parent income" on Day/month/year, XX days prior to the hearing of this motion and XX days prior to the filing materials as clearly indicated in my letter and receipt of service for this evidence is also attached.

                        Originally posted by sco44 View Post
                        Breakdown in faith between lawyer and client is grounds for terminating the retainer. I know lawyers who have fired clients for lying to them, since it reduces the lawyer's effectiveness and can lead to professional embarrassment.
                        It doesn't happen enough. Often, a client will lie so much to the lawyer that they are stuck.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My take on the whole thing is that in family court people lie all the time. When someone continually lies or misrepresents facts, it is taken into account when rendering a judgement and very often the judge will make remarks in written decision.

                          If my ex had been assessed for every lie he told I'd be wealthy! I'd say that 99% of the time his lawyer didn't know about the lies until we came up with the evidence to prove it was a lie. Yes, my ex had two lawyers dump him and I assume it was for putting his lawyer in a humiliating position in front of a justice.

                          If your lawyer has been careful to document perjury, it can be brought up time and time again in future hearings. Sooner or later the perjurer has no credibility whatsoever and it's smooth sailing for you!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arabian View Post
                            My take on the whole thing is that in family court people lie all the time. When someone continually lies or misrepresents facts, it is taken into account when rendering a judgement and very often the judge will make remarks in written decision.

                            If my ex had been assessed for every lie he told I'd be wealthy! I'd say that 99% of the time his lawyer didn't know about the lies until we came up with the evidence to prove it was a lie. Yes, my ex had two lawyers dump him and I assume it was for putting his lawyer in a humiliating position in front of a justice.

                            If your lawyer has been careful to document perjury, it can be brought up time and time again in future hearings. Sooner or later the perjurer has no credibility whatsoever and it's smooth sailing for you!
                            The truth over time prevails over the "I didn't know", "I forgot", "the email went to the spam folder", "my assistant didn't notify me of the correspondence" and other classic statements uttered by negative advocate lawyers on their client's behalf before the court who will throw excuses and project blame at everything else instead of their own conduct and behaviour... And especially their client's possible "bad faith".

                            In some cases... It even leads to a superior court justice yelling at the person in question to hire a new lawyer even while the negative advocate lawyer is standing right there in the court room and there are numerous other lawyers and a transcriber putting this all into record for the oral arguments of the motion.

                            Sad to say, I have seen this personally on a few times on different matters now. I hypothesize that in those matters the client and their lawyer both exhibit behaviour patterns of highly conflicted people and are both are "hearing" what is being said (even in a loud voice by the justice) but, not listening to what they are being actually told by the judge.

                            The problem possibly being that the client and their lawyer see everything from the "black and white" perspective of family law as a "battle" and/or "war". Unfortunate for everyone involved and most importantly the children who are being abused possibly by their all-or-nothing thinking. These are often people who rarely compromise on anything.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I guess I should be more specific.

                              Given that my ex said he would follow court rules to the judge, and then right afterwards blatantly lie twice, for the sole purpose of not getting a stiffer punishment.

                              Both the judge and my ex had no clue I had the evidence I did. The judge actually had to think about letting it in because it was a surprise attack, but to be fair i didn't know where things were going to go.

                              I had no clue of what purging contempt was, nor time to prepare. I was flying by the seat of my pants. I'm thinking now maybe I should have objected to the Purge and can I still based on the grounds I had no time to prepare?

                              Anyways should I make a big stink about the perjury in my submissions. Should I use the judges own words in my submission essentially showing it his face that he keeps ignoring him. Should I list in detail the rues he has broke. Should I make him aware I expect him to come down hard on him regardless if he is on social assistance.

                              Ive been told already I probably wont see anything from this because the ex wouldn't be able to pay the fine, and the judge told me already because he purged his contempt he cannot imprisoned. So what else is their really? Should I go after him in criminal court?


                              In the past 2 months this guy has

                              1) Failed to file his taxes for 3 months after being told 3 times he had to.
                              2) Tried to hide from being served for a contempt motion.
                              3)Left a message with the duty council the vening before telling him to tell the judge he wasn't showing up for court for the contempt motion because he was on vacation.
                              4)Failed to come back turn himself in or come back right away when he put a arrest warrant out for him didn't come back 7 weeks later
                              5) Spent 2 days in jail when the police found out he was back at his residence.
                              6)Finally filed his taxes after Jail. I still didnt get them until 2 weeks later , yesterday at court.
                              7)He is on Ontario works and he writes down he didn't get any social assistance payments. He is a dependent so they didn't come in his name. Now I cant even collect any section 7 expenses from him.
                              8) Ignored 2 request to admits and 2 request for documents
                              9) Now he has perjured himself on the stand.

                              Comment

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