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  • New to this group- Wonder if anyone else has similar situation?

    Hi
    I am new here....but I have been reading along for a short time.
    I have also tried the Internet in general to find anything to help me with my situation but haven't had any luck with any one in a similar situation.

    I have been separated from a 10 yr marriage for 1 year now. I have 3 kids under age 7 and am starting the court process after not having any luck with drafting a separation agreement.

    The issue I have is this. Yes from day one I have made a higher income than my ex. Through the relationship he had his own business but it never really "showed" to be profitable. He just made enough money to call his for his own use mostly. I work at a family business and have for 27 years.I do not own it .
    Through everything I struggled with getting him to apply himself and earn more. I also had a difficult time getting him to help with anything at the house . Half way through the marriage he shut down his business and opened another non-profitable business with a partner, now earning even less than before. At this same time I was having our 3rd child.
    I had the bigger income ($65K) and I also took care of everything in relation to the house and children. I was and still am a full time employee and mom.

    So now......he has no intentions of paying cs and if I pursue it says hes going all the way in pursuit of spousal support. The kids reside with me and I am their sole supporter and always will be. He sees them alternate weekends.(10% of the time) Btw he works at his one business 16 hrs a week and the other approx 6-8 days a month.
    He is physically fit and totally capable of getting employment but just doesnt feel he should have to. He is waiting for a big payout because he says I make a substantial wage and will eventually inherit the business. He has even said that he waited 10 years for this.

    I am stressing out and am not sure how long I can go on fighting. I am a believer that all this money being wasted in court and with lawyers is money that can be going towards the kids and their future. He doesn't care. He is borrowing money to fight me.

    Sorry this is so long...I am just trying to be precise.

    I cannot find very much info on the net where a wife is to pay any spousal support when she in fact has the kids and is providing for them. He was never a stay at home day and rarely was home for the kids.
    Of course he wants 1/2 the equity of the matrimonial home that we lived in together for 2.5 years.....the other 8 years of our marriage we lived rent-free in my parents rental.

    I am 43 and he is 42.

    Any suggestions or reflections would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

  • #2
    google "spousal support" "custodial payor" - that will bring you to the spousal support guidelines for this situation, plus articles and lists of cases about this situation.
    Last edited by dinkyface; 09-17-2012, 10:45 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the funhouse !My ex tried going after me for support too.Thought by under employing himself he could leech off me until the day I died.No that aint happening.The marital home is another kettle of fish altogether.You may have to pay him in order to hold on to it.There is plenty of smart experienced people here who know all about property division-Im sure they will help you out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        I have been separated from a 10 yr marriage for 1 year now. I have 3 kids under age 7 and am starting the court process after not having any luck with drafting a separation agreement.
        My recommendation would be to offer to take the to Mediation, Mediation-Arbitration (Med-Arb) or Arbitration prior to filing an Application with the court.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        The issue I have is this. Yes from day one I have made a higher income than my ex. Through the relationship he had his own business but it never really "showed" to be profitable. He just made enough money to call his for his own use mostly. I work at a family business and have for 27 years.I do not own it.
        Congratulations on being the primary income earner. It is not something you should be ashamed of. You succeeded at your career in the best interests of the family. The courts will assess the incomes of both parents on Line 150 of your past 3 years tax returns.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        Through everything I struggled with getting him to apply himself and earn more.
        This could be interpreted as "controlling" behavior by you. Unless you have cogent and relevant evidence to backup this blanket statement by you it will be discounted by the judge more than likely. You have to prove your case if you raise this on Application. Not a small feat to do and will inject conflict and a pile of litigation challenges. Approach something this with caution.

        Furthermore, he may be at his top earning potential unless you can demonstrate that for the history of your marriage he has chosen to be "underemployed". If you have been the higher income earner for 10 years... This is going to be an incredibly hard case to make.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        I also had a difficult time getting him to help with anything at the house.
        Again, approach this kind of blanket statement with caution. Just stating this in an affidavit does not mean it is "the truth". These kinds of arguments presented often lead to incredible conflict before the court. I highly recommend you really research what you should consider when presenting this kind of "evidence".

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        Half way through the marriage he shut down his business and opened another non-profitable business with a partner, now earning even less than before. At this same time I was having our 3rd child.
        I had the bigger income ($65K) and I also took care of everything in relation to the house and children.
        Can you prove that you did "everything in relation to the house and children". Everything, in the view of the court is a VERY strong statement to make. You cut the lawn, shoveled the drive way... When you say that you did EVERYTHING you have to mean everything. List what you did, when you did it, on average how many times a month prior to committing this kind of statement to a court document.

        Honestly look at what he has contributed to the house hold prior to making this blanket kind of statement.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        I was and still am a full time employee and mom.
        Then, you couldn't have done "EVERYTHING". Did the children attend daycare? Did you have a nanny? You may have "felt" like you did everything but, it is a hard (and dangerous) argument that you did "everything" if you are full time employed.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        So now......he has no intentions of paying cs and if I pursue it says hes going all the way in pursuit of spousal support.
        You can apply for whatever you want and he can answer and request anything he wants. What you request and what he requests is not really that relevant. What is... Is the **evidence** you bring forward to support your application that you did "everything" and he did "nothing".

        Just because you "feel" you did everything doesn't mean that you in fact "did everything". Be very careful with these kinds of blanket statements that are often based on "emotional reasoning" and not "facts". The court makes judgements on "facts" and not "emotional reasoning" or your personal "feelings".

        Feelings often can be the death knell for litigants before the court.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        The kids reside with me and I am their sole supporter and always will be. He sees them alternate weekends.(10% of the time) Btw he works at his one business 16 hrs a week and the other approx 6-8 days a month.
        How long has the "every other weekend" access been in place. He does realize (i hope) that in this Access configuration he is obligated to pay CS.

        I hope you do realize that you may be obligated to pay him SS or a lump sum and are prepared to accept this possibility.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        He is physically fit and totally capable of getting employment but just doesn't feel he should have to. He is waiting for a big payout because he says I make a substantial wage and will eventually inherit the business. He has even said that he waited 10 years for this.
        What he inherits is of no concern to the court as inheritance is not considered in equalization. Especially for something that he will get in the future.

        Be very careful with the "rich family" argument.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        I am stressing out and am not sure how long I can go on fighting. I am a believer that all this money being wasted in court and with lawyers is money that can be going towards the kids and their future. He doesn't care. He is borrowing money to fight me.
        Eventually he will have to pay his debt. If you bring the matter to court you seriously need to consider costs and how "costs are awarded" in family law matters. If you bring a frivolous lawsuit forward based on "beliefs", "emotional reasoning", stress (aka anxiety/fears/worries) and baseless allegations to facts you could find yourself paying *your legal fees* and *his legal fees*.

        He also needs to consider this too.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        Sorry this is so long...I am just trying to be precise.
        FYI: You are going to have to be MUCH MORE precise and detailed in the evidence you bring forward to court.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        I cannot find very much info on the net where a wife is to pay any spousal support when she in fact has the kids and is providing for them. He was never a stay at home day and rarely was home for the kids.
        Again, this may be how you "feel" but, court is not concerned with how you "feel". Family Courts deal with "evidence" and not "feelings". Unless you can bring tangible, cogent and relevant evidence to support ***FACTS*** to backup your generalize statements of belief... You could find yourself in more conflict than you want or can deal with.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        Of course he wants 1/2 the equity of the matrimonial home that we lived in together for 2.5 years.....the other 8 years of our marriage we lived rent-free in my parents rental.
        Equalization is just that. 50-50 division of all assets and debts. He has every right to half the equity in the matrimonial home. Welcome to the reality of separation and eventually divorce.

        Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
        Any suggestions or reflections would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.
        I highly recommend you seek legal counsel to assist you in the matters and arguments you are presenting here. If the other party (parent) has legal counsel they will make mince meat out of the arguments you are presenting here on this forum.

        They will come back strong on your application, bring forward detailed affidavits outlining dates, times and relevant and cogent evidence in response to generalized statements of your "personal beliefs" or "feelings" about the matters and what is relevant.

        Your situation that you have described is not unique in my personal opinion. In fact, if presented in the format and methodology you are applying as previously stated... Will quickly become minced meat.

        Retain a lawyer ASAP in my opinion to help you figure this all out.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah lol. Welcome to the Funhouse Have you spoken with a Lawyer at all?

          Your situation is rather unique, but not unheard of. Where is he living at the moment?

          Is he contributing anything to the mat-home? You've closed any/all joint accounts, credit cards etc?

          Tayken raised many good points. Go consult w/a lawyer asap. Med-arb would be a good way to go, but hard to say at this point unless he's willing to cooperate.
          Last edited by hadenough; 09-17-2012, 11:28 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tayken View Post

            Then, you couldn't have done "EVERYTHING". Did the children attend daycare? Did you have a nanny? You may have "felt" like you did everything but, it is a hard (and dangerous) argument that you did "everything" if you are full time employed.
            Oh? Single and 'only' parents do, so I don't see why it is impossible to fathom a married parent doing so. I think we need to be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush.

            What he inherits is of no concern to the court as inheritance is not considered in equalization. Especially for something that he will get in the future.

            Be very careful with the "rich family" argument.
            I read and re-read her post and I *think* she was saying he was implying that SHE would be receiving the family business as an inheritance and that he was happy to drag things out as long as it takes so he can get a piece of it. I think?

            Comment


            • #7
              I do appreciate all advice.
              Of course I am still emotional and am just not very good at explaining myself without that emotion getting in the way. I do not want to even go to court...I want to settle but it doesnt look to be happening. A previous settlement agreement was ignored.
              I do have a lawyer and had my first CC. The ex lives nearby so far. He hasnt contributed anything to the home or kids since separation (sadly hardly ever....) He claims to make 1300/month yet pays $1200 + in rent.
              The realization is he married me because I could be supportive. I am not by any means rich....but I have worked all my life and was taught the values of hard work and saving.
              Yes when I say I worked full time thru the marriage and ran the household --I indeed did all I could. I did have a child care provider for the very early years but when I came home I did the child care,laundry, cooking, cleaning etc. I did not document his lack of anything to do at the house-- although I wish I had.
              With respect to things like shoveling the driveway etc--those things honestly didnt get done-unless I flagged down a neighbour boy . Many of those years I was the pregnant wife who left the shovel at both ends of the laneway in order to get to the front door. Again--it wasnt what I wanted to do but I didnt have a choice .

              Originally Posted by ftmomont
              Through everything I struggled with getting him to apply himself and earn more.

              Sometimes I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either I'm complacent or controlling.Even my lawyer indicated to me that....I stayed with him in my present situation for 10 years. So yes I encouraged him to work and earn money. I didn't just lay down and let him get the better of me.

              As for his earning potential --he did earn three times as much 5 years ago before he switched business ventures. He has since restarted the previous business but it doesnt "show" much income.

              I actually know I am not a strong enough fighter to go thru the court process. For my kids--I wish I was. He is a strong willed person and very convincing.He has threathened and bullied this last year.( I have kept the texts)

              I am resigning myself to the facts of this and the eventuality.

              I do not know what facts to back up or how to back them up. All I know is the wage disparity. But the fact is he is/was not the equivalent of a SAHM ---raising the kids didnt inconvenience him when it came time for his business. He didnt stay home with the kids. He was self supportive when I met him-albeit it he enjoyed me supporting the family.
              I am trying to understand his entitlement to SS.

              I am truly at a loss of what to do......

              Comment


              • #8
                "I read and re-read her post and I *think* she was saying he was implying that SHE would be receiving the family business as an inheritance and that he was happy to drag things out as long as it takes so he can get a piece of it. I think?"

                * I haven't re-read it but that is also how I understood the OP's comment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes blink--he has been waiting for the inheritance ( of my family's business) and has already brought up the issue in his initial papers from the lawyer. My parents have to prove that I am not a shareholder...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                    Oh? Single and 'only' parents do, so I don't see why it is impossible to fathom a married parent doing so. I think we need to be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush.
                    OP has admitted to emotionalism in the matter and not having a full grip on the state of things already. It is hard to seperate fact from emotion and the OP is going to need to really focus on facts. Emotions run high and this is why family law needs better integration with the health care system. Lawyers are often the worst people to talk at a time like this because they themselves are not trained professionally in the areas of mental health to properly identify a "fact" from an "emotional reason" from their clients.

                    Not painting anyone with the "same brush". These are all baseless allegations often raised before the court that drive more conflict than resolve problems. Just identifying the challenges in the "evidence" the OP has to present to bring "fact" to potential "emotional reasons".

                    Venting here is fine and seeking support for baseless allegations that have no grounding in fact won't get you much before the court... Other than more conflict.

                    Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                    I read and re-read her post and I *think* she was saying he was implying that SHE would be receiving the family business as an inheritance and that he was happy to drag things out as long as it takes so he can get a piece of it. I think?
                    It was a confusing statement. More clarification was provided. More than likely the other party to the litigation asked for full and frank financial disclosure in accordance with Rule 13 of the Family Law Rules. It now falls on the OP to demonstrate to the court that they have no financial ownership of the company in question and that they are only an employee and hold no other trust in the company.

                    More than likely a Form 20 request in accordance with the disclosure requirements for financial disclosure in accordance with Rule 13 was executed by the other party. This comes with a notice that should the other party not comply with the financial request it will be taken to motion or they may be ordered to go for oral (viva voce) disclosure. To someone in an emotional state as described by the OP this can be overwhelming and the forms are incredibly terse in how they are configured.

                    If the OP does not have a financial relationship (ownership) to the company in question a letter from the director of the company will state this and can easily be provided. It would be best to come from the company accounting firm and/or legal counsel.

                    It is par-for-the-course unfortunately as the obligation to provide the evidence for full and frank financial disclosure falls on the litigant for which the request is being made. If they don't satisfy the request a motion can be brought forward and an order can be made for this disclosure.

                    See how the cycle of conflict before the court can be emotionally devastating. You think you are getting divorced... But, now your parent's and other family members companies are dragged into the matter.

                    Often, people with fight back with things like this, which is a standard disclosure request with "bad parenting" affidavits etc... Hopefully the OP has good counsel that assists in sorting out and identifying cogent and relevant evidence for their client.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      I do appreciate all advice. Of course I am still emotional and am just not very good at explaining myself without that emotion getting in the way.
                      The best person to help you sort out your emotions/feelings is a clinical psychologist. Don't be afraid to seek assistance at this time for yourself. The Honorable Justice Brownstone in his book "Tug of War" recommends that litigants seek therapy. The courts should not look negatively on someone who seeks proper help in dealing with their emotions.

                      You can talk to your family doctor and request a referal to the practice social worker. (If your doctor is a part of a family health team in Ontario.) This is also another alternative to a clinical psychologist.

                      Personally, I highly recommend a therapist trained in Cognitive Behavior Therapy. This methodology of treatment gives you appropriate tools on how to notice, name and do something (often nothing) about the emotions you are experiencing. Some social workers have been trained in CBT.

                      If you get a referral from your doctor the services *should* be covered by OHIP.

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      I do not want to even go to court...I want to settle but it doesnt look to be happening.
                      Are you the "applicant" or the "respondent" in the matters filed with the court. If you are the applicant and didn't "want to even go to court..." why did you take the matter to court then?

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      A previous settlement agreement was ignored.
                      This happens all the time. It is unfortunate. But, you may be able to recover costs if the court decides in your favour or a decision is render that closely matches your original offer.

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      I do have a lawyer and had my first CC.
                      A mediated solution... how did it fair? What advice did the judge give to both parties on the arguments they were presenting or how they were trying to solve problems? What is the next step in the litigated process? Settlement Conference or a motion?

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      The ex lives nearby so far. He hasnt contributed anything to the home or kids since separation (sadly hardly ever....) He claims to make 1300/month yet pays $1200 + in rent.
                      That may be very well the cost to rent in the area and to be close to the children's habitual residence. Remember, as you are the party residing in the matrimonial home they may bring forward a request to pay "occupational rent" against you.

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      The realization is he married me because I could be supportive.
                      Isn't this one of the major reasons to marry someone though? To support each other?

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      I am not by any means rich....but I have worked all my life and was taught the values of hard work and saving.
                      That is good but, how is it relevant to your matters?

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      Yes when I say I worked full time thru the marriage and ran the household --I indeed did all I could. I did have a child care provider for the very early years but when I came home I did the child care,laundry, cooking, cleaning etc. I did not document his lack of anything to do at the house-- although I wish I had.
                      You can document it now though. But, the argument weakens when there are child care providers involved. Your lawyer can guide you on how to present the evidence or if it is even relevant to the matters at all.

                      Originally posted by ftmomont View Post
                      With respect to things like shoveling the driveway etc--those things honestly didnt get done-unless I flagged down a neighbour boy. Many of those years I was the pregnant wife who left the shovel at both ends of the laneway in order to get to the front door. Again--it wasnt what I wanted to do but I didnt have a choice.
                      Again, although you are feeling emotional about this what you have to be able to do is objectively review this statement:

                      "I didn't have a choice." Why didn't you have a choice?

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good morning
                        Thank you Tayken again
                        I would like to say that the first agreement was ignored because he truly believes he doesnt have to pay any cs. He is adamantly saying he will take care of them when they are in his care. He has since this agreement went on to high a higher priced lawyer.
                        He has said he doesnt believe in any extra-curricular activities etc and that they dont "need" some of the activities I try to provide for them. Hence he has contributed anything .
                        During the CC the master pope told him that he had to pay some cs and that he has to show for the next judge that he has made some attempt at earning more of a living in that he is physically able.
                        This is my ex's second residence. The home he chose is pretty elaborate. There are many other places in town at a more reasonable rent but he is yes, used to a higher standard of living.He has full intentions on moving " once this is over" into a farther away community (45 min) in with his gf.
                        Days after the CC he is says that he has an apt with a second career school...

                        The realization is he married me because I could be supportive.
                        I was supportive of him thru the years in his attempts to earn a living etc but what I am saying is that he married me to be taken care of monitarily.

                        The relevance of whether I am not rich is that I cannot to afford to pay him ss in any amount and raise my children. I have many more years to go in the raising of my children and will need every penny .Yes I make approx ($65) and need sll of it to raise my family.
                        He never finished high school and doesnt see the importance of higher education and I do.
                        In matters around the house when I say I didnt have a choice-----In order for something to get done, after the nagging and waiting for something to get done-it was easier to just do it myself or get it done. Even the sitter had to literally jump snowbanks to get to the house . Again in the last 5-6 years I was pregnant and/or caring for three young children and tried to minimize conflict as much as I could and I did try to make the marriage work.
                        So .......what are my options?? It sounds as though the only option is to settle and give him the money he wants....problem is I do not know what he wants because he doesnt want to say for fear he could get more.......
                        He is being nasty and vendicitive and saying things to my kids. The lawyers have set up a questioning session in two weeks.
                        Again I do not know what avenue to take......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You aren't being clear about what the actual issues are. He is asking for money? How much, based on what?

                          Custody: Is he challenging the current EOW access schedule?

                          Support (Child): At the case conference it was suggested he could be earning more money. What skills does he have, what does he do at his business and other work? What would someone earn working as a full-time employee doing this type of work? He should be imputed a wage at this level, meaning it should be assumed he is earning, say, $40k a year whether he is or not.

                          Children's Expenses: Most of the children's expenses should be covered within their ordinary budget. He will pay a certain amount, which should be based on imputed income. You will pay out for their expenses and activities out of that, and your share from your income. The reality is, he will earn less than you and pay what seems to you little support. Some expenses are deemed Extraordinary. These are primarily daycare, summer camps (for child care purposes), medical expenses over $100, and certain sports that are unusually high, generally because the child is competing at an elite level or has a chance for a scholarship. These expenses get split proportionate to income.

                          Support (Spousal):
                          • You had a short marriage, he is not necessarily entitled to support, he would have to prove entitlement. At this point if he seeks support, that is your answer.
                          • Secondly, amount, would be based on the imputed wage he is capable of earning.
                          • Thirdly, support for the children takes precedence, if you have the children full time this is an issue but you have to argue it properly and show a budget that includes the children's expenses and how spousal support would hurt the children.
                          • Duration for a short year marriage would be .5 per year of marriage; 5 years in your case only if he could prove entitlement in the first place.
                          Marital Home: The marital home gets split 50/50, no arguments. You are keeping the home, you pay half its value in equalization. This will be the biggest item you have to consider.

                          Equalization: All assests you both accumulated during the marriage, minus all debt existing at separation.

                          Equalization (Family Business): While I understand your concern here, you say your family is taking care of proving that the business is owned by them. You are an employee, that should be shown by payroll and presumably they have been declaring your payroll and any benefits as an expense. This can be proven, so don't worry about it. Further, even if you inherit it, inheritances are excluded from equalization.

                          Some comments on fairness. You knew when you married he didn't have post-secondary education, the type of work he did, and what type of income he had. You agreed to that then, and you chose to have four children with him. While married, income is family income, it is shared by all. You brought in more, he brought in less. The situtation isn't any better for him right now, in fact it is worse. He doesn't have a good job, he doesn't have an education, he will be expected to pay support on an income he isn't earning. You make a point that he "didn't see the worth of an education" but you note that he won't be earning much income right away because he is planning on going to a career college.

                          You are obviously very close to the situation, we all were/are. You are upset, you see the worst in him, and the vulnerabilities you have. He has them too. Work on the process of letting go. Get the divorce sorted out mathematically and accept the result.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^ what Mess said It is spot on.You are getting wrapped up in fear and panic over his threats.Dont be.He has NO power,by heeding anything he says you are giving power to him.Think logically and concisely.Think of how you can PROVE what you say.For nearly every statement you make, have the proof of why that is true.He wants half your family business-have the paperwork to prove you are only an employee.You ran the household?You paid the bills ?Get the bank records to prove it.Let him run into debt ITS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.You are not together it doesnt matter.What does matter is your kids ,maybe counselling for them during this time would be a good thing.Maybe he can live off his gf

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mess View Post
                              You are obviously very close to the situation, we all were/are. You are upset, you see the worst in him, and the vulnerabilities you have. He has them too. Work on the process of letting go. Get the divorce sorted out mathematically and accept the result.
                              Quite possibly the most brilliant statement posted to this site in the past 6 months posted to this site. Mess, as always of course.

                              Some additional things to consider in light of Mess' comments:

                              http://highconflictinstitute.com/ima...rightbrain.pdf

                              You Know You're Taking It Personally When...

                              And in particular this article:

                              When Math People and Feelings People Negotiate

                              Originally posted by When Math People and Feelings People Negotiate
                              Feelings People

                              Feelings people, on the other hand, usually don’t have a clear idea of what they want. They often feel that they have been taken advantage of, and they want to be compensated for their injury – whether it’s a personal injury claim, a business deal gone bad, or a divorce which included some “bad behavior” in their point of view (sometimes the math person agrees, but more often he or she doesn’t). They may feel entitled to a substantial settlement to make up for the past and/or to give them a feeling of security in the future. They may be in shock over what has happened to them, or they may be feeling much fear about what will become of them in the future. Feelings people may see themselves as facing impossible problems in the future, so that they need a substantial settlement to provide the security that they feel they cannot provide themselves.

                              Why can’t you see what you’ve done to me and how disadvantaged I will be in the future? they often ask. Why can’t you see how you’ll be so much better off than I will be? They feel helpless and seriously disrespected when their proposals are rejected. Discussions feel increasingly painful, as the math person seems to reject the feelings person’s point of view. The feelings person may feel abandoned and disrespected, especially if he or she was in a relationship with expectations of being taken care of – whether by an insurance company, a business partner, or a seemingly successful spouse.
                              One of my favourite articles by Mr. William Eddy.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken

                              Comment

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