Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

under the table babysitting?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • under the table babysitting?

    Because my friend's ex is refusing to provide any receipts for her child care, we are questioning if she is paying under the table.

    Is he responsible to pay child care expenses if she is paying under the table?

    She is claiming the child care fees on her taxes...so technically she should have receipts if the government were to ask her for them right? But she has not presented him with any.

    The only thing she did do was give him a piece of lined paper that she wrote on stating weeks for each month with prices beside them---is that considered proper proof by her? (Anyone can write down a bunch of numbers like that)

  • #2
    Without proper receipts he should not pay a dime! Has he been reimbursing her based on her ' lined paper'?

    Her and her family seem like a 'real piece of work'!

    Comment


    • #3
      No, he hasn't gave her anything towards the child care expenses yet because she hasn't gave him any real receipts--didn't think her writing numbers down on lined paper was enough proof.
      I believe they have been separated since 2008 at that time the agreement stated that there was no extraordinary expenses, he was simply to pay $400 child support monthly--which he has always done--it goes through FRO.
      The agreement stated that should future extraordinary expenses arise--childcare expenses, that his ex was to notify him and provide him with receipts in which he would have 20 days to pay.

      Well all this time she never asked him to pay child care costs/never gave him any receipts. This june is when she first asked for him to pay child care expenses--he told her "no problem, give me receipts and I'll pay" She gave him the lined piece of paper in August. He ignored that.

      September comes and she gave him a letter stating that she was requesting his 2009 and 2010 income tax statements and a current pay stub.
      She wrote on the bottom of it what her income was for 2009 and 2010 (didn't provide any income tax statements or pay stub of her own)

      Their agreement states that when seeking information from eachother, they must provide it in writing, both provide it within 30 days and can only ask once a year.

      He responded back to her letter, stating all that--and simply wrote his incomes down the same way she did for 2009 and 2010, told her a current pay stub was not applicable as she did not provide hers---told her how many days she had left in the 30 day limit to present this stuff to him, and he'd present it back to her.

      30 day limit passed...8 days later he received a letter from a lawyer, stating ex had retained her/ lawyer letter was dated past the 30 day deadline. Lawyer letter did include her income tax summary's (odd that it wasn't notice of assessments??)

      lawyer said she read his letter back to his ex regarding the time limits/can only ask once a year and that unfortunately he still had to provide his income tax summary's and that he had 10 days to do so or they will be taking him to court.

      So can they go back and get child care expenses from him for 2009 and 2010 even though she hasn't asked all this time/never provided him with receipts??

      He doesn't have the money to get a lawyer--and since she already has custody/his access is already court ordered--is it worth getting a lawyer? what else can he lose? They can't take his access away with the children right?

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry for all the questions, such long responses---thank you staysingle for answering all these. Because of how dirty her and her family played at the start, he really isn't in a position to gain anything--which is why he doesn't think it is worth getting a lawyer for himself--cuz really what else can he lose. She got the house, all contents, custody of children. She has scammed him out of money through FRO.
        It is a mess!

        Comment


        • #5
          No, they are unlikely to remove his access with the children.

          He should comply with her lawyers request and provide his 2009 and 2010 Notice of Assessments. Don't bother with the pay stub.

          Do note that because she is the primary parent she need not provide him with her NOA or income tax info. As the payor of child support he needs to comply, on time, with providing his income documentation. Most people do this around June or July of every year. Don't engage in the " I'll show you mine, if you show me yours" dialogue. He must legally show his info for Child Support purposes alone.

          Having said that, where she needs to 'legally" show her income info to him is when the question of section 7 expenses shows up. This makes sense because of the grade 6 math involved in determining each parents 'percentage' of the expensed owed based on income.

          If his agreement states he is exclusively responsible for child care costs( I hope he didn't agree to this) than she doesn't 'legally' have to produce ANY income info!

          If she cannot produce any legitimate receipts for the incurred expense than ignore the request for any retroactive expenses period!

          Comment


          • #6
            His agreement states that they are to pay for child care expenses proportionately at the time of the expense and he has 20 days to pay after receiving receipt of invoice.

            So if she doesn't have to provide NOA's or any of that stuff...why would they even put that in the agreement--that both of them have to provide the same information within 30 days and can only ask once a year?

            It was her who solely had that agreement made for them too.

            Just doesn't make sense to put all those time limits in, if it doesn't even matter.

            So if the agreement states 30 days to give his income tax summary's and the lawyer requested 10 days, should he present it to them in 10 days?

            Comment


            • #7
              He should provide his tax info tomorrow! Don't worry about her stuff at this point. Her lawyer will file in 10 days and your friend will lose plus pay for costs!

              He needs to comply with the request purely on the fact he is the payor of child support.

              Simply comply with the lawyers request for the info. Sit back and see where it takes him after that.

              A question, what is actually going on with the child care expense ? Do you think they are trumped up or is she realizing some sort of expenses?

              Comment


              • #8
                Her NOA's would be relevant to determine each parents proportional share of s7 expenses, so he should be providing his and requesting hers.

                If it were me, I would ask to be provided with invoices for the babysitting costs so I could remit payment directly to the provider or copies of legitimate receipts for which I would cover.

                Receipts that do not provide the daycare providers full details and/or a breakdown on costs will not be acceptable.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am kind of thinking that whatever "agreement" they signed is what determines their obligations. Unless everybody in Ontario signs agreements which is not the case in my province.

                  At the same time, can you opt out of s.7?

                  if you can then arguably that was not part of the Agreement/contract.

                  but her disclosure was.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oops sorry read it wrong.

                    I guess my point is: how can you determine proportionate sharing for s.7 child care expenses without NOAs for both parties?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by beebie View Post
                      Oops sorry read it wrong.

                      I guess my point is: how can you determine proportionate sharing for s.7 child care expenses without NOAs for both parties?
                      The only way is to impute an income on the party who hasn't provided their disclosure.

                      And s7 is statutory, same as child support. While parties can agree to do what they want between them, if there is ever an issue in future the courts will default to what the law requires.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Femme View Post
                        Because my friend's ex is refusing to provide any receipts for her child care, we are questioning if she is paying under the table.

                        Is he responsible to pay child care expenses if she is paying under the table?

                        She is claiming the child care fees on her taxes...so technically she should have receipts if the government were to ask her for them right? But she has not presented him with any.

                        The only thing she did do was give him a piece of lined paper that she wrote on stating weeks for each month with prices beside them---is that considered proper proof by her? (Anyone can write down a bunch of numbers like that)
                        1. Provide the financial disclosure as required by the rules. If they go on motion to get them you will end up paying costs.

                        2. When providing the disclosure ask for the following about the child care provider:

                        a. Name of the Child Care provider.
                        b. Vulnerable Record Checks for all staff.
                        c. The Child Care Provider's license and registration.
                        d. All invoices and receipts of payment for the childcare provider.
                        e. The First Aid certificates for any staff.
                        f. The childcare provider's license and registration.

                        3. Childcare is governed by a legal Act. The government dispenses dispursments for the establishment of licensed daycares in Ontario. No sitting judge is going to make you pay for a service run under the table.

                        4. If the "childcare provider" is not a licensed and registered business filing proper taxes then they are a babysitter working under the table.

                        5. Depending on the number of children, and the conditions for which your children are cared for the services provided may require the provider to be licensed. You can find this information quite easily on the internet.

                        6. No invoice and receipt then no payment even on a proportional base.

                        7. They run the risk of the judge ordering the children go to a properly licensed facility and having to produce financials should they go on motion. If you request this in response when providing your financial disclosure they will get whacked with costs.

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          1. Provide the financial disclosure as required by the rules. If they go on motion to get them you will end up paying costs.

                          2. When providing the disclosure ask for the following about the child care provider:

                          a. Name of the Child Care provider.
                          b. Vulnerable Record Checks for all staff.
                          c. The Child Care Provider's license and registration.
                          d. All invoices and receipts of payment for the childcare provider.
                          e. The First Aid certificates for any staff.
                          f. The childcare provider's license and registration.

                          3. Childcare is governed by a legal Act. The government dispenses dispursments for the establishment of licensed daycares in Ontario. No sitting judge is going to make you pay for a service run under the table.

                          4. If the "childcare provider" is not a licensed and registered business filing proper taxes then they are a babysitter working under the table.

                          5. Depending on the number of children, and the conditions for which your children are cared for the services provided may require the provider to be licensed. You can find this information quite easily on the internet.

                          6. No invoice and receipt then no payment even on a proportional base.

                          7. They run the risk of the judge ordering the children go to a properly licensed facility and having to produce financials should they go on motion. If you request this in response when providing your financial disclosure they will get whacked with costs.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken
                          Great post Tayken!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why is that that some people just LOVE to play games, and revel in all the stress and drama that results from it.

                            It's business folk's.. nothing more and nothing less.

                            If a party, either payor or recipient, is required by court order to provide tax return and NOA and pay stub upon request, and if a request is received, then provide the tax return and notice of assessment and pay stub for Christ's sake. Stop playing games.

                            And if you want to see the other parties.. just request it. Of course they might not send it. So what !!. If you then receive a request for s7 payment, simply return it and reiterate the request for NOA etc.

                            It's just business.

                            It's not poker.

                            Comment

                            Our Divorce Forums
                            Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                            Working...
                            X