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  • primary residence

    I just received a counter offer to my separation agreement, and in it, she states

    "the parties shall have joint custody, with her being primary residence and me with liberal access."

    I know that legally primary residence is not much. And, the access that we write as an example is 50/50. But, does anyone know what she would think it means?

    I think it's fine to have a primary residence for all mailings. I trust her completly, and if that ever changes, I would go to court to change it.

    I think she views it as her having full custody and me having visitation 50% of the time. Would anyone have a good way to word it. I want an equal voice in all important decisions.

  • #2
    My ex and I have 50/50 joint custody, we make all decisions together, and both have a say in every aspect of the children's lives, he however has Primary residence, which means he has them more than 60% of the time (I have them every weekend) and I pay CS. Make sure that its 50/50 joint custody with both the parents having to be involved in all aspects/decisions regarding the children.

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    • #3
      I will have our daughter at least 50% of the time, and it'll never go under 40% for sure. That is not an issue. And, my ex is fine with that. We have a proposed arrangement, but it's been flexible in the past and will stay like that for the time being.

      I'd like to word it in a way that she'll find it satisfactory and yet it won't lead to confusion.

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      • #4
        So then DO NOT let her have PR, make sure the agreement states there is no PR. Here is what we had in our separation agreement BEFORE I gave him PR.

        "The Husband and wife acknowledge that each is a fit and capable parent. The parties agree that joint custody of the children [names and dob] is in the best interest of the children. The children's principal residence is shared between the joint custodial parents who are expressly not designating either party as the primary or secondary residential parent as the parents agree that the primary physical residence shall be with the designated parent as agreed by a schedule of alternating residence organized between and by the parents from time to time."

        There is more, let me know if you want me to type it all out

        Don't let her have PR especially if you both live in a close proximity she could possibly go after you for child support if it stated she had PR.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by canniiee View Post
          Don't let her have PR especially if you both live in a close proximity she could possibly go after you for child support if it stated she had PR.
          That is not true. Child support is based on physical custody. I have her 50% of the time, therefore only paying the difference between our two table amounts.

          PR is a term created by lawyers and divorcees to confuse things even more. It's mostly termed as which address will be on the child's documents, where her mail will be sent and all that. As a shared custody parent, the PR parent has a duty to inform the other parent of all this information.

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          • #6
            That's why I said "could possibly"

            You never know how things can change, if it states she had PR that means she is the PR and if she wants to all the sudden keep your daughter for longer periods of time she could possibly do that, this is why when we originally separated we had it worded that nobody has PR. and technically if you are doing 50/50 there is no PR so why should SHE get it....

            I would cover yourself and insist on no PR, plus why does she want PR if you are doing 50/50? You can list her address at the school, but you can add yours too, I would be cautious about having it in writing that she has PR.

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            • #7
              Could you just ignore the PR wording and write out that for all purposes requiring an address that the child will use the mother's address? Then that all decisions concerning the child's welfare, health etc be joint decisions made together with the both of you? And then something to state that the child will spend 50% of the time with each parent. These things don't have to be written out with the legal jargon if it is too hard to interpret. Just write it our in plain english.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                Could you just ignore the PR wording and write out that for all purposes requiring an address that the child will use the mother's address? Then that all decisions concerning the child's welfare, health etc be joint decisions made together with the both of you? And then something to state that the child will spend 50% of the time with each parent. These things don't have to be written out with the legal jargon if it is too hard to interpret. Just write it our in plain english.
                Thanks. I am beginning to hate the legal system. I understand that you have to be specific in some cases, make it the worse case scenario. In our case, I want to be vague, I am 99% sure that for the parenting aspect of it, we'll be fine, and I am ready to risk that 1%.

                I asked her what PR meant to her, and I think I'll be able to give her everything she wants out of it without using those words.

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                • #9
                  Foredeck, I am less concerned by PR than I am by the phrase "liberal access". You should not have "liberal access" which is completely vague. You should state specificly that neither parent will drop below 40% access. (I have that in legalese somewhere but it will be a while to find). This is what will have you at 30% and paying full CS, not PR.

                  The courts know full well what PR is intended to mean and not mean, and it won't be taken the wrong way and any attempt by her to use this you can rightly point out as manipulative and deceitful. The only danger is that daycares, school principals, sports coaches, administrators etc will see your ex as the "primary contact" and will automatically call with any problems, info, updates, etc and you will be out of the loop. This isn't a situation you will enjoy and it will be a bugger to correct.

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                  • #10
                    Mess is right. If the order states that PR is with the mother, that's fine. But where it states your access to your child, it better be specified exactly what your access arrangements are, and if it's over 40%, it better state in there somewhere that it will never fall below 40%. That is what is most important.

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                    • #11
                      I only wrote down the first paragraph, in the second paragraph, it states that I have her 50% of the evenings. Not quite sure of the exact words, but "should have her 50% of the time, for example, 3 days one week, 4 days the other".

                      I think if I explain what PR is in the agreement, instead of just using the words. I don't mind that she's the front contact. I don't want everybody to make two phone calls just to repeat things. As long as it's clear in the agreement that we're equal partners in the upbringing of our child, I am happy.

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                      • #12
                        Well, if you are sure you are fine with it, but I will tell you that my ex used this game with me. I am actually the PR with my daughter, but it isn't in the agreement and I wasn't concerned. My ex last year had daycare convinced she was the custodial parent because she had written the first 6 months of cheques. She had her swim team sending all emails and phone calls to her place. When it came time for me to give cheques to the daycare, they REFUSED TO ACCEPT them from me, called my ex and reported that I was trying to take over and asked her permission. I sent several letters to the daycare administrator to get it sorted out, including personel complaints that the staff were reporting on me to my ex. We have official legal joint custody and that SHOULD be enough, there is no grey area about it, but I had to jump through hoops to straighten it out.

                        For the swim team it wasn't so bad, but at the end of the year I wasn't invited to the team barbeque because the team admin assumed I didn't have any custody and wasn't involved, because all they saw was the paperwork (I took my daughter to half the practices and knew her coach well.) This was frankly how my ex intended it.

                        My advice is to stay involved constantly, have your name and number and email prominent on all applications and paperwork, keep in constant contact with all offices and admins, and personal sign half the cheques on alternating months. If I had let this go, my ex's intention (not paranoia, she tried this and failed with her lawyer) was to say I was not involved as a parent and she wanted to show it with statements from all the admins and teachers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mess View Post
                          My advice is to stay involved constantly, have your name and number and email prominent on all applications and paperwork, keep in constant contact with all offices and admins, and personal sign half the cheques on alternating months. If I had let this go, my ex's intention (not paranoia, she tried this and failed with her lawyer) was to say I was not involved as a parent and she wanted to show it with statements from all the admins and teachers.
                          Thanks, that's my attitude. I know I'll sound naive, but I think it's best if I go in trusting.

                          The daycare know of the arrangement, and depending on the day, either one, or my parents would pick her up if she's sick. I think I'll be the one attending her sporting events, and I plan on coaching whatever she picks.

                          We've been doing birthday parties together, and plan on doing Christmas together. I know it won't always be like that. But, we've come to blow over the financial matters, and assets. But, we've always been excellent for custody. We'll support each other, and switch days to accomodate the other. I honestly think it'll stay like that.

                          Also, she wants to add a line "a review for other arrangements for custody and access should be done before the child starts kindergarter". Should I be worried about this. I know that child custody is never a closed item. Is that the best way to word it?

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                          • #14
                            If you are working together for Christmas and birthdays and everything is smooth that way, you should be able to adapt to kindergarten without an offical "review". For my youngest, now in SK, we have a two day rotation and we swith houses by one of us dropping off and the other picking up. Our child is doing perfectly well with this.

                            If she wants to write in a clause requiring a "review" then it's because she intends on using it. Honestly, you have 50/50 access, joint custody, you don't need a review unless you are going to change that.

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                            • #15
                              We've mentionned it before that we would review it then. Currently, it's a very weird schedule, nothing fixed, and never more then 4 days. It works for us, and that's all that matters. It's been discussed that when she goes to kindergarten, we'll review it and change the schedule accordingly.

                              And, even with that sentence there, she'll have go to court to reduce my custody. So, I honestly don't see the harm in it.

                              Comment

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