I can't find a away out! Opinions needed

[bleudar]

I met this woman 12 years ago, and we managed to have 3 kids. We spent more than half of that time in long distance, she in the US and I was in Canada. I couldn't move to the US because of immigration and she couldn't sponsor me either. After a few years I managed to bring her to Canada and I was planning to build my family.
I would occasionally have a beer or two with co-workers maybe once a week after work but never coming home at 11PM type of things unless there is something out of normal. She became critical of my occasional drinking habit (never had a single bottle of beer at home since her arrival). She also complained about my religious belief, since I didn't take seriously the religion she believed in. For some reasons, things started escalating and arguments started.

I wasn't perfect for sure but it was frustrating to be around her, constantly criticizing me and asking me to buy worthless things. On Sunday, to take a break from her, I would go out to see my buddy and sort of started flirting with someone that I knew before. I can definitely say that wasn't the smartest thing to do. After a few months (after the mini scandal), she asked me that she would go to the US for some times (there was other reason besides situation, as she was expecting her citizenshin there in US). She also didn't have any specific proof, only pictures at club gathering but I learned my lesson.

Since she was staying in my apartment in the US, at the end of the lease I asked her to come back to Canada because it was getting tiresome, splitting my salary for her expenses, and not being with my kids.

She came back, but in her eyes I was the same person. My shirts are sniffed, my breath is checked, incessant calls when I am out. Clearly the trust had been broken. But just 3 months after her arrival, she asked to go to US for summer break with the kids. She never came back!

Often I would look around the house and couldn't comprehend what has happened to us. I begged her, called her friends, her aunts, her dad; I asked my family member to talk to her to no avail....I accepted my faith in the end.

I was depressed, thought I would become crazy...I left my job and took some time to learn and read a lot. I read about divorce and its impact on people; I learned about myself and learned to be more compassionate...Well, I still have more to learn. Anyway, until recently (2 weeks ago) she had blocked me from calling her; she does that every few months, which means I don't even get the chance to speak to the kids.

Now, she is living in a shelter in US with my 3 kids...The level of stress the kids are experiencing can't be imagined; the oldest at grade 3 sometimes doesn't remember when to use addition or multiplication (I started helping with his homework nightly). But most importantly the oldest is now asking me to be with him. I understand how much we misses each other. I feel like they were kidnapped from me, and that I don't have any right to them. In fact, I believe the reason she has family allowed me to speak to the kids is about drop in the grades of the kids, her not being educated enough to help them, specifically the oldest. Anyway.......

Here is my situation:
1 - how can I go about divorcing her since she is in the US and I am here? She said shes doesn't money to find lawyer...

2 - Since the kids want me to be there, and I also want to be with them, would it be considered worthwhile the risk of leaving my life and go live in the US illegally, losing possibly my little saving in few months? Of course that's the worse case scenario, but I am also looking for jobs there (which is pretty hard with my degree type but I am trying to balance that by learning programming and data science); I also go there every 3 months to spend few days with the kids which I don't think should be a long term plan.

3. I am afraid she might loose the kids because of the way I see them, almost neglected and tiny room while she is yapping on her phone and the kids are screaming...But I am also not sure if I want to spend 50k in a drama filled divorce...What should I do? Sue her until we both run out of money?

Sorry, I may be rambling by now but any help with these 3 issues would help me greatly.....

(I accept criticism too)

[notAngry]

Hi I am sorry to hear of your troubles.

Don't cross into the border illegally it will definitely hurt your custody case in the long run.

Don't think about divorce action, think about child health and custody action but it sounds like you have given her consent to keep the kids so far. Divorce legal action is a much smaller concern, just don't reconcile if that is what you want later.

Why is she living in a shelter? You probably owe her support payments.

Don't yell at her or berate her.

I don't have anything else to say.

[bleudar]

Hi I am sorry to hear of your troubles.

Don't cross into the border illegally it will definitely hurt your custody case in the long run.

Don't think about divorce action, think about child health and custody action but it sounds like you have given her consent to keep the kids so far. Divorce legal action is a much smaller concern, just don't reconcile if that is what you want later.

Why is she living in a shelter? You probably owe her support payments.

Don't yell at her or berate her.

I don't have anything else to say.

Thank you for the input. I understand your point about crossing the border.


As far as support payment is concerned, I think I have a mix feeling about that, but I want to help her financially. In fact, she even has my bank card that she doesn't want to use (well, that's what I think). I also think as long as we are not officially divorced, support payments set by the court, that I don't much obligation toward her. Imagine if all divorcing woman decides to move to one of the most expensive cities in the world and expect their ex to foot her bills...If that's what it is, then I want to be a woman!


But of course there is moral issue here and I do my part, which is to be there every time there is a financial problem, leave money in our bank account and tell her about it (well, that's if there is communication between us). I can be very wrong about this way of thinking, which is one of the reasons I am here asking for help. Thanks

[tilt]

It sounds like your kids are living in a shelter because you are not supporting them. If you love your kids you would want them to have stability, good health, and education. All that costs money. So yes, you should be supporting them (and no, support doesn’t have to be Ordered by the court, children are entitled to support form their parents whether their family is intact or not). Framing it as money given to/wasted on the mother is just you rationalizing not supporting your own children. You have given her many reasons to not trust you, you not being reliable enough to support your children is a big one.

If her support system (family and friends) are in the US then she is probably better off there; you risking being banned for life from the US by staying there illegally/working illegally is not in your children’s best interest.

There is free legal help available, as well, you should probably talk to someone like a religious leader or therapist about the moral responsibilities of being a parent and co-parent.

[rockscan]

You need to get a lawyer. To start with, if she isn’t providing stability or a home then you should seek custody. You should also be paying her support.

You got involved with this woman, you had children with this woman, you are now responsible for those kids. You don’t want spend tens of thousands on drama? These are children who are at the mercy of their stupid immature parents who couldn’t get their shit together.

Time to put on your big boy pants and stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about your kids.

[bleudar]

It sounds like your kids are living in a shelter because you are not supporting them. If you love your kids you would want them to have stability, good health, and education. All that costs money. So yes, you should be supporting them (and no, support doesn’t have to be Ordered by the court, children are entitled to support form their parents whether their family is intact or not). Framing it as money given to/wasted on the mother is just you rationalizing not supporting your own children. You have given her many reasons to not trust you, you not being reliable enough to support your children is a big one.

If her support system (family and friends) are in the US then she is probably better off there; you risking being banned for life from the US by staying there illegally/working illegally is not in your children’s best interest.

There is free legal help available, as well, you should probably talk to someone like a religious leader or therapist about the moral responsibilities of being a parent and co-parent.

Well, thanks for your response. I am sure there is some true to what you have written there. Framing it as her being in where is now is because of me being allegedly unable to support her is too simplistic, at least in my view. Where do you think that they have lived in the last 10 years and who had paid for those? I also think it would be very douchey for me to start posting all the things that I did and do for her and the kids, so I will stop reaction to idea that you are clinging to.



But anyway, I understand the immigration things but hey there are millions of illegal immigrants in the US, who are waking up every day to the beautiful faces of their kids, in spite of the other dangers of life! I think I might prefer that, though.

By the way, if I get lucky enough I might be able to get a decent job and live there, in the same city and being with my kids every day...That's what I am focused now, but of course that might take time.



Lastly, I am not sure if I am understanding your point about me seeing a religion leader to teach me "moral"...I think you should think more what what you wrote there...

[bleudar]

You need to get a lawyer. To start with, if she isn’t providing stability or a home then you should seek custody. You should also be paying her support.

You got involved with this woman, you had children with this woman, you are now responsible for those kids. You don’t want spend tens of thousands on drama? These are children who are at the mercy of their stupid immature parents who couldn’t get their shit together.

Time to put on your big boy pants and stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about your kids.

Ok, I see. I don't know much about divorce but where will I hire the lawyer? In Canada, to represent me in the US? Or a lawyer in the US while I am here working? And I CAN'T live in the US!!!!!! Either way, I can't afford it! I will loose my job in the first month....Maybe I am paranoid, but do you think that it is my desire, if I had the mean, to see my kids in such condition?



I wouldn't know how much I think about my kids, so your opinion is heard.

[Janus]

1 - how can I go about divorcing her since she is in the US and I am here? She said shes doesn't money to find lawyer...

Are you planning on getting married soon? Divorce does not really matter otherwise, all that matters is a separation agreement.

2 - Since the kids want me to be there, and I also want to be with them, would it be considered worthwhile the risk of leaving my life and go live in the US illegally

Wait, your plan to gain legal custody would be to move to the US illegally? Are you serious? That must be the dumbest plan I have ever read on this forum, and I've read a lot of dumb plans.

3. I am afraid she might loose the kids because of the way I see them, almost neglected and tiny room while she is yapping on her phone and the kids are screaming.

Why is this a problem? It makes it more likely for you to get custody.

But I am also not sure if I want to spend 50k in a drama filled divorce...What should I do? Sue her until we both run out of money?

If she is on the verge of losing custody to some American version of CAS, it is likely you could win fairly easily. Seems like a worthwhile risk. Also, you would be "saving" your children.

she had blocked me from calling her; she does that every few months, which means I don't even get the chance to speak to the kids.

I must admit, I have trouble understanding fathers who allow this to happen. Why do they let their kids slip away? Why do they let the mother have complete control?

Anyhow, back to you. There are two possibilities, either the mom is competent and you are exaggerating, or she really is that crappy and is about to lose the kid's to the child welfare authorities.

1. Mom is competent and you are exaggerating

I think you've let a status quo build up that will be hard to reverse. Try to negotiate some parenting time. It is going to be tough to be a part of your kid's lives. Save your 50k, use it to woo a new wife.

2. Mom is actually crappy

Are you seriously not willing to spend 50k to save your kids from a terrible life? There would be no limit to how much money I would spend to save my kids from a situation that was so dire that imminent apprehension by government authorities was a real concern.

[bleudar]

Are you planning on getting married soon? Divorce does not really matter otherwise, all that matters is a separation agreement.



Wait, your plan to gain legal custody would be to move to the US illegally? Are you serious? That must be the dumbest plan I have ever read on this forum, and I've read a lot of dumb plans.




Why is this a problem? It makes it more likely for you to get custody.



If she is on the verge of losing custody to some American version of CAS, it is likely you could win fairly easily. Seems like a worthwhile risk. Also, you would be "saving" your children.



I must admit, I have trouble understanding fathers who allow this to happen. Why do they let their kids slip away? Why do they let the mother have complete control?

Anyhow, back to you. There are two possibilities, either the mom is competent and you are exaggerating, or she really is that crappy and is about to lose the kid's to the child welfare authorities.

1. Mom is competent and you are exaggerating

I think you've let a status quo build up that will be hard to reverse. Try to negotiate some parenting time. It is going to be tough to be a part of your kid's lives. Save your 50k, use it to woo a new wife.

2. Mom is actually crappy

Are you seriously not willing to spend 50k to save your kids from a terrible life? There would be no limit to how much money I would spend to save my kids from a situation that was so dire that imminent apprehension by government authorities was a real concern.

Well, that was a good one, so thank you!


1. I am never gonna married again; So I will look up the separation stuff that you mentioned. That might be a great option for me.


2. "Wait, your plan to gain legal custody would be to move to the US illegally? Are you serious? That must be the dumbest plan I have ever read on this forum, and I've read a lot of dumb plans."


Well, if you had bothered reading just the next sentence you would have seen that I am working on a better option. But if being illegal in the US is my last resort for me to just be in the same city as those kids, I would do it, just to see them daily. It's ok if that's dumb to you...



3. Why do they let the mother have complete control?


Are you married? Because if you know anything about family and kids, we all know that the justice systems is skewed toward favoring women...But before you even get to the court, wouldn't you be ashamed of tug-pulling kids during this hard and stressful divorce time? I am not speaking for every man here, but I can't restrain or physically fight her to stop her from holding onto the kids. We both have the right, but I am held to a higher standards. Anyway...


4. Are you seriously not willing to spend 50k to save your kids from a terrible life?


Of course I would...A man who can think of being illegally in the US, leaving his job, his friends, to an unfamiliar territory would be definitely risking more than 50k...But If you are referring to my point that divorce is expensive, yes it is...and I, in this case, can still loose custody even after spending 50k...If I had 1 million, I would pay 100K, what about that?



Your opinion has taught me something more, so I appreciate that.

[HammerDad]

Get a lawyer and do it NOW.


Your situation is complicated and the longer to sit on your hands, the worse off it becomes for you. Why? Because the longer she stays in the States with the kids the more she builds up residency and status quo. Had you actually done something when she first left with the kids, you would have a very strong case to have them returned to Canada. Now? Well, your case is getting worse by the day.


Your concerns about money are understandable, but there are sacrifices we make for our children. Depending on how much your ex fights, you could be in for the long haul and a lot of money. It may suck, but you don't want to have that conversation with your kids when they are older that you gave up on them because it was too expensive.


The first thing you need to do is file a motion to have the kids returned to Canada, being the habitual residence. The longer you wait, the better your chances of losing become. Once they are back in Canada, you then work to get a separation agreement in place establishing custody etc. Yes, there is a chance you lose and the kids will remain in the US. But you are guaranteed to lose if you do nothing.

[Asphenaz]

Divorce and separation, imho, are just a state of being, at the moment you are separated. So as Janus and Rockscan pointed out, you need legal advice on how much support to pay and how to gain a measure of custody.

CS and SS are legal obligations, not a choice whether fair or not. As Janus pointed out, think of it as spending money to help your children.

.But I am also not sure if I want to spend 50k in a drama filled divorce...

Sorry, that's out of your hands if she's in anyway unreasonable. It's more of a drama filled custody and support battle. If she is reasonable, then you can try to work it out, using mediation or arbitration.

[bleudar]

Get a lawyer and do it NOW.


Your situation is complicated and the longer to sit on your hands, the worse off it becomes for you. Why? Because the longer she stays in the States with the kids the more she builds up residency and status quo. Had you actually done something when she first left with the kids, you would have a very strong case to have them returned to Canada. Now? Well, your case is getting worse by the day.


Your concerns about money are understandable, but there are sacrifices we make for our children. Depending on how much your ex fights, you could be in for the long haul and a lot of money. It may suck, but you don't want to have that conversation with your kids when they are older that you gave up on them because it was too expensive.


The first thing you need to do is file a motion to have the kids returned to Canada, being the habitual residence. The longer you wait, the better your chances of losing become. Once they are back in Canada, you then work to get a separation agreement in place establishing custody etc. Yes, there is a chance you lose and the kids will remain in the US. But you are guaranteed to lose if you do nothing.

Thank you so much! I will work on these steps.