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  • What do I owe?

    The kids are with me every other Wed night to Mon morning before school. What % would that be? I currently just pay my ex the offset amount based on our incomes. Is that right?

    Also, since I only have my kids every other week, I've decided to withdraw them from after care. Currently we are using the same provider and I've been paying a portion of the fees based on our salary ratios (which means I pay about 60%) She seems a bit irritated with me for deciding not to use the childcare provider, as that now means she'll have to pay the full monthly amount herself. Do I owe her anything towards it?

    Thanks

  • #2
    The fee isbased on your salary, not the amount of time the children spend there so my guess is that you would still be obligated to pay the same amount. I imagine that in order to secure the place for the time the children are there you are still required to pay for the time you choose not to bring them.

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    • #3
      I've heard of that as well. Some daycare centres charge full time fees regardless of how often the child attends. To my understanding, its to maintain the child's spot.

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      • #4
        You have the kids approx. 28% of the time. Even a little less, but anything under 40% is the same for the purposes of determining payment.

        Is the after care used when they are in your ex's care for the purpose of her working?

        If yes, then you still need to pay a proportional share to your income.

        And based on the % indicated of time, you should be paying full table amount, not offset.

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        • #5
          Yup, makes sense otherwise daycare providers would choose to only have clients who brought their children full time if people could take up all their spaces and just show up half the time and pay half the time. Not a great way for them to earn a consistent living.

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          • #6
            Thanks so far for the replies.

            Here's some additional info:
            During the summer, we do a week on and off schedule (july and aug), so we each get the kids 50%. Does that make a difference in what I need to pay her? Does that bring me closer to the 60/40 and me just needing to pay the offset?

            Childcare: Yes, she'll need to pay full time to keep a spot for the kids, even for the days she doesn't use it. BUT, I will have to pay for the childcare I choose on my days, so why should I pay her anything? And she is having to use it because she works. Right now, she is actually paying the full amount for morning care, (since I don't use it, but she needs it because of her job) and then I pay proportionally to our salaries for aftercare. (even though I am only using it every other Wed, Thurs, Fri)

            What about if I offer to pay her the full amount of child support, but, nothing for daycare...or... I offer to pay my portion of daycare, but just the offset amount for childcare? Would either of those still be fair?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by baileybug View Post
              Thanks so far for the replies.

              Childcare: Yes, she'll need to pay full time to keep a spot for the kids, even for the days she doesn't use it. BUT, I will have to pay for the childcare I choose on my days, so why should I pay her anything? And she is having to use it because she works. Right now, she is actually paying the full amount for morning care, (since I don't use it, but she needs it because of her job) and then I pay proportionally to our salaries for aftercare. (even though I am only using it every other Wed, Thurs, Fri)
              Because you're responsible for at least a portion of the cost of childcare, period. Even if you decide not to use it on XX amount of days or to send them for care somewhere else on the days you have them, it's still going to cost the same amount to secure the spot for them. Why you wouldn't just have them cared for at the place you're already paying for I don't get but regardless of that, you are responsible to pay for it. You say you're responsible for 60% so that's 60% of daycare in total, not just for when you feel like bringing them.

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              • #8
                based on your explanation you are responsible for full CS. You are also responsible for your proportionate amount of daycare regardless of who puts the child in daycare. You are proportionately responsible for her days, she is proportionately responsible for your days. That means daycare, not babysitting so one of you can go out to a movie or whatever.

                Why aren't you using the same daycare provider? If she has to pay to keep the spot secured then why aren't you using that spot? Why double pay?

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                • #9
                  Let's put it this way, we don't have any sort of court order for our custody agreement. As part of the divorce documents it just listed that I would have to pay her the off-set amount for child support. it didn't list anything about childcare costs.

                  Actually my kids are now 9 and 12, so I'm thinking I'll just pay for a taxi for them to come home and watch themselves. That way I don't have to pay anything for child care.

                  But there's nothing formally my wife can do to make me pay a proportion of her daycare fees though right? Short of going to a lawyer or court, which would cost way more than my share of the fees. I'm thinking I could just refuse to pay her.

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                  • #10
                    Wow. So basically you're just 'doing her a favour' by paying? I guess she could return the favour by quitting her job and staying with the children herself and then you wouldn't have to worry about paying childcare costs. That of course just leads to all kinds of spousal support and other issues.

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                    • #11
                      Ok, so i realize I'm beginning to sound a bit like a jerk. The ex has just put me through so much, that I tend to react badly sometimes.... I want to do what I am supposed to do.

                      So here are some more points/questions:

                      1)CS: Every June we exchange T4's and do the offset calculation and I cut her a years worth of post dated cheques. I believe that is technically for "last year's support". Since for the whole of last year we were on a 50/50 schedule, and didn't start the new schedule till Jan this year, would it be correct to say that starting NEXT June, I should pay her the full CS amount?

                      2)childcare: I'm still wondering where it says I need to pay for a portion of her childcare fees, when the children are with her on her days? Is this that section 7 stuff or what?

                      I really do want to do the right thing, I just don't want to be taken advantage of by my ex. My new wife is livid about how much money we spend on the kids already and I kind of need to prove to her I am oblidged to pay these amounts to the ex.

                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Family Law Act ONTARIO REGULATION 391/97 CHILD SUPPORT GUIDELINES

                        When you keep hearing about "section 7" it is the section 7 of this act.

                        Read it.

                        The expense is the child's expense. The chld needs care. It doesn't matter if the expense is incurred when the child is with you, the other parent, with the grandparent or with me here on our special days together. If the child has an expense, and it is covered under the section 7, then both parents should share the expense proportionate to income.

                        As far as your question about updating the amount according to T4 and the date, etc. You are looking for a loophole. You may have a loophole depending on how your agreement is specificly worded. If your agreement has standard wording then you probably don't have a loophole.

                        The whole business with the T4's is a convenience. You update once a year based on the T4 (or the Assessment you get in May) because that is the most convenient way to show an independant confirmation of what you earned. In practice you could change the CS payments every month based on what you earned that month. That would be a ridiculous amount of work. So it is done this way for convenience, OK?

                        If the children's residency has changed, on a more or less permanent basis (not just for summer for example) then the support should change at the same time the schedule changes. If it stopped being 50/50 last January, then you should have changed the support payments last January. You would be within your rights to ask to do it properly by court order, but you would still have to pay retroactive to January.

                        Your argument about changing the amounts each year because of the way you recalculate your income doesn't work, because your ex could get a court order to change the amount retroactively to January '09 when she gets a copy of your Notice of Assessment which is mailed out this month (probably, if you filed late April). She doesn't do that because you have simplified your process to avoid going back to court every year. That is the only reason why you pay last year's amount this year.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think you may have misunderstood, wasn't until this year (Jan 10) that we started on the new schedule, hence my thinking not to up the payments this June, but wait until next June after we've done a full year on the new schedule. Does that make sense?

                          For childcare then, If i get my own provider, for my days - would she have to pay a portion of what I pay? If so, then would we just add up what both hers and mine cost and then pay proportionally?

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                          • #14
                            I didn't misunderstand. Child support should have been adjusted as soon as you changed to the new schedule.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by baileybug View Post
                              I really do want to do the right thing, I just don't want to be taken advantage of by my ex. My new wife is livid about how much money we spend on the kids already and I kind of need to prove to her I am oblidged to pay these amounts to the ex.

                              Thanks
                              You're kidding, right? You're jumping through hoops to find ways to pay less for your kids that you have with your first wife because your second wife doesn't like how much you pay for your kids? I assume she knew you had kids when you married and that having kids isn't cheap. The kids needs should come first. Sheesh.

                              Comment

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