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-   -   How do I subpoena bank records? (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22320)

BetterRobert 02-06-2019 11:41 AM

How do I subpoena bank records?
 
I need direct access to my ex's parents financial records to address an alleged loan. What legal remedies are available to me and what would the process look like? I am self representing.

Thanks in advance.

rockscan 02-06-2019 12:44 PM

Your ex can get a loam from their parents. There is no basis for this impacting a case. Unless they are employing your ex and not reporting it, their financial info is off limits.

What are you concerned the money was for or what they may be hiding?

Janus 02-06-2019 01:35 PM

The alleged loan could have been granted during the marriage, and now the ex is looking for repayment. Robert might be trying to show that there was no loan.

The alleged loan could have been granted after the marriage, and his ex could be saying that her income is much less than it otherwise seems since some of it is in the form of a loan. Again, Robert might be trying to show that no money was loaned to his ex in the claimed timeframe.

That said, getting access to the records of a third party is very tricky, verging on impossible unless there was a corporate issue at play. I would get access to your ex's records, and try to figure it out from there.

Tayken 02-06-2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRobert (Post 233629)
I need direct access to my ex's parents financial records to address an alleged loan. What legal remedies are available to me and what would the process look like? I am self representing.

Thanks in advance.

You don't need their bank records. Don't bother with them. Simply do a Form 20 requesting a copy of the signed loan agreement (Promissory Note). That is all you need. If they can't produce a proper document that is notarized properly a judge will never accept the "loan".

Every day in hundreds of courtrooms judges hear about "family loans" and dismiss them because they can't produce a Promissory Note for them. They are washed away as gifts 99% of the time. You need a proper paper trail for it to be a proper loan. Even with them, they are often washed away as gifts... Because you have to show the amortization tables etc.

Don't bother with the bank information. Simply request the disclosure of the promissory note. They can create a crappy one that they back date... let them... Judges are very smart and see it all the time. Let them dig that hole themselves. Not worth fighting over.

Also, your signature has to be on the Promissory Note for them to hold you liable to it. Good luck with that one! They would have to forge your signature and that is even easier to prove.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Also, the bank records proving that the other party who received the loan has been paying the loan in accordance with the Promissory Note. :) That is the other thing to ask for.

Dollars to donuts the won't be able to produce it...

Janus 02-06-2019 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tayken (Post 233636)
You don't need their bank records. Don't bother with them. Simply do a Form 20 requesting a copy of the signed loan agreement (Promissory Note)...Also, the bank records proving that the other party who received the loan has been paying the loan in accordance with the Promissory Note. :)

Yeah, that's even better. They might say they haven't started to pay it off yet, but a key feature of a loan (vs. a gift) is a concrete expectation of repayment.

Tayken 02-06-2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus (Post 233641)
Yeah, that's even better. They might say they haven't started to pay it off yet, but a key feature of a loan (vs. a gift) is a concrete expectation of repayment.

Exactly... I can't tell you how many times I have watched lawyers eat this stuff up in a courtroom. 99% of "family loans" are bogus.

BetterRobert 02-06-2019 09:35 PM

Thank you for your replies everyone. Allow me to clarify further so you have a better understanding of the circumstances.

In June 2012, $29K was loaned from my ex's parents, paid onto our Home Equity Line of Credit.

The payments are alleged to have been in denominations of $500. Over the course the course of 48 months, there are approximately 16 months of missed payments.

The only evidence of the loan is my mother-in-law's chicken scratch on a loose piece of paper that could have easily been forged. But, this potentially classifies the loan as a 'payment on demand' loan, without interest.

I want access to the parents' records, so I can find all the 'missed' payments, which I'm certain to find.

My goal is to prove that the loan was paid down more than they admit - not that the loan never existed.

standing on the sidelines 02-07-2019 07:46 AM

If you paid in cash and didnt get a receipt then I would think you are SOL. Plus if you are looking for deposits that match the amount that you say you paid, they may have not deposited it all

Asphenaz 02-11-2019 01:45 PM

Quote:

key feature of a loan (vs. a gift) is a concrete expectation of repayment.
Sounds to me that the onus would be on them to prove that the payments were made. IE: request a receipt and bank statement showing regular payments.

They can claim they made the payments but you have a good argument to say it wasn't simply because they cannot prove it.

Kkc 02-12-2019 12:54 PM

Along these lines for my situation

I bought a house in 2012...parents made me sign a 50k promissory note that was notarized by real estate lawyer. It was used for downpayment. Promissory note was only signed by me and is interest free.

Stbe moved in shortly after to that house. We married a year after. 2 years later we moved to our current house. I have not paid my parents a dime and this debt was pre existing to marriage and known to my spouse when I bought the house.

I am hoping this would be addressed in equalization


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