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-   -   BC father accused of killing daughters pleads 'not guilty' at trial (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22473)

iona6656 04-23-2019 02:51 PM

BC father accused of killing daughters pleads 'not guilty' at trial
 
https://globalnews.ca/news/5179729/a...y-trial-day-2/

So. apparently- someone else maybe came into the home and killed the girls- and stabbed the dad. But instead of calling 911 or screaming for help- he jumped in the tub to take a bath.

This is insulting to the memories of those two girls.

This trial is going to be fascinating, in a macabre sense.

iona6656 04-23-2019 02:52 PM

also- reading that other thread about this case....wow.

tilt 04-24-2019 08:14 PM

What thread? I searched but didnít find it.

iona6656 05-01-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tilt (Post 235212)
What thread? I searched but didnít find it.

https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...ad.php?t=21554

some of the comments in there are like 'whoa'...


but then again- there are people claiming that this process (family law) is pushing them to this point. yes- these people are monsters if they take their own child's life. but it's worth looking at what needs to change to stop this.

there's a quote that goes:

ďThere comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river.

We need to go upstream and find out why theyíre falling in.Ē

tilt 05-01-2019 10:59 AM

Thank you! Lots to read in that thread. Iíve read so many cases on Canlii where the Justice lists DV, controlling behaviours, emotional/physical child abuse and then at the end Orders unsupervised parenting time anyway. One case I was reading last night had the Judge Order the police to remove a one year old child from the mothers care while in a battered womanís shelter to be put into the (documented) abusive fatherís sole custody (who then immediately refused all access) WTF?

iona6656 05-01-2019 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tilt (Post 235311)
Thank you! Lots to read in that thread. Iíve read so many cases on Canlii where the Justice lists DV, controlling behaviours, emotional/physical child abuse and then at the end Orders unsupervised parenting time anyway. One case I was reading last night had the Judge Order the police to remove a one year old child from the mothers care while in a battered womanís shelter to be put into the (documented) abusive fatherís sole custody (who then immediately refused all access) WTF?

Can you share a link to those cases? I've only ever found one case where abuser got sole custody- and in that case it was because the mom left the child there in order to flee the situation. And the OCL fond that the child was not being abused. Though- I think there is a case to be made where one parent is abusive- and shown to be abusive- EVEN IF it's the case that they never abused the child(ren)- then it is NOT in the best interest of the children for the abusive parent to get custody of any kind. Why are we putting children in the care of individuals who use violence as a means to control others?

I've looked into both adoption and fostering- and the screening that is done is intense...and you can't help but think- shouldn't parents have this kind of screening too?

tilt 05-01-2019 06:16 PM

This was the case:
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...19oncj266.html

The father brought an emergency motion when the mother left for the shelter, the Judge obviously did not hear the motherís side and clearly never thought to ask about prior police involvement for DV. Fortunately in the end the mother recieved final sole custody but the child should never have been taken from her while in the shelter to begin with.

Witnessing their parent be abused is considered even more traumatic for children than them experiencing abuse themselves. Which makes sense, vicarious trauma and the feeling of powerlessness is devastating

iona6656 05-02-2019 09:10 AM

UGH@ the timeline to that matter.

It's so PAINFULLY obvious that the father was the one who escalated it. Mom wasn't a flight risk- the police checked and said mom & kid were fine. The emergency motion made sense if you look at what the father knew. THe conversion to a temporary sole custody arrangement though- that was dumb. And brutal for an 18 month old child to be removed from his mom- who both parties acknowledged was pretty much his only caregiver up to that point.

AND while the decision ultimately is decided fairly (except spousal support- I generally think a lot of spousal support decisions are dumb- and completely unfair. this one is no exception)- you can just see the judiciary closing ranks around each other. The first Judge who heard the emergency motion totally fucked up imo. That judge way overreached in turning a simple motion to prevent the infant from leaving Ontario into a sole custody order. Why? Trinidad and Tobago is part of the Hague Convention.When they returned after the motion- 6 days later- it should NOT have resulted in a sole custody situation. And the judge in this decision went out of their way to say "OH that judge was justified, nothing to see here folks!". Brutal.


But the mother also fucked up. If he threatened your life- you report it, ffs. Worse- if he raped you- you report it. I know leaving an abusive situation is hard- I know going to the police is difficult. But if you're going to rely on this as part of the reason you are the suitable parent for custody during litigation- then you have to report it.

This judge seemed hell bent on somehow justifying the fathers actions. Just look at paragraphs 79 & 80.

Quote:

Clearly the father was very invested in the child having a good time and frustrated by the childís lateness, sleepiness and general upset. The mother attended very reluctantly. It would have made much more sense for the mother to drop the child off at the temple where all the fatherís family and friends were and pick the child up after the party. Instead she came inside and clutched on to the child. Athan may well have felt the tension between his two parents.
Um, it was the mother's weekend. She should be allowed to stay with her son. The fact that the judged used the term "clutched" is so inflammatory. And 100% unecessary. He could've simply left it at, " It would have made much more sense for the mother to drop the child off at the temple where all the fatherís family and friends were and pick the child up after the party."....

I doubt this is the end of this case.

tilt 05-02-2019 10:00 AM

Oh totally agree. I was soooo frustrated after reading that decision. The father used his financial power over her and the proceedings, and she will never be as economically wealthy as he is so she canít even sponsor her family to come help her. The father manipulated the system; the mother didnít even know what the system was. The Judge seemed super impressed by how successful (financially/business) the father was and biased based just on that.

I understand your point about needing to involve the police, but I, a very privileged white person have had a very difficult time getting the police to believe me about documented criminal matters (not even DV, which is even more challenging). The mother came from a culture where police do NOT take DV (or women) seriously. So, I understand why she did not think of them as being someone ďon her sideĒ, especially after her Sask experience. But then the lack of support from the police was held against her. Gahhhh. Frustrating.

StillPaying 05-02-2019 11:02 AM

I didn't read the whole thing, but definitely disagree. My take away was that the dad did exactly what he should have done. If your ex takes off with your child with no warning, you go to the police and then file an emergency ex-party motion. That's how the judge keeps the child safe and gets everyone together to figure out what to do next. End result was that child gets both parents 50/50. Had he not done that, he would be fighting for an overnight/unsupervised access. The parents don't have to like each other but the child still deserves both parents.


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